Posted on 01/19/2005 6:18:17 AM PST by ComtedeMaistre
If there can be atheistic Jews, a race. If not, a religion.
Yeah, it's pretty wild that even though I'm a Christian, I can make aliyah because my grandmother was Jewish.
Which leads to another question - my husband can make aliyah through my grandmother also, but my kids (who are quite young yet) seemingly cannot? Unless, I assume, I convert to Judaism?
Oh and yet another one - what kind of proof does Israel require of children and grandchildren? How would Israeli authorities determine, and how would one indicate, that a grandparent was Jewish? I imagine that you can't just fly over and say "hey, I claim eligibility" with nothing to back it up.
Great Answer, eclectic. It also is not necessarily a religion, but a birthright and a way of life. Most people don't realize that all of the 633 laws that G-d gave the Jews are to enhance their daily lives in obedience to G-d--e.g. that if they adhere to the laws they will live long and have happiness in the covering of Ha Shem. As far as race, I contribute most to help Aliya for the Ethopian Jews. It is truly a blessing to see the happiness and appreciation that they have when they come to Israel.
I have friends that are converts that made Aliya. They were given exactly the same benefits and rights as born Jews. The Israeli Government paid their way to come to Israel, paid to ship their furniture, and set them up in housing. There was no difference given to them. And by the way, they were never asked if they believed in Jesus!
I'm not sure what would be required as proof. It's my understanding that if you state thay you're a now a Christian, you likely wouldn't be admitted. Obviously you could lie, which could get you deported later. If you were admitted, I believe your minor children would be as well.
The same confusion is often applied to Islam. I have no racism against anyone of any color or ancestry, but I do have a problem with radical Islam. Yet whenever I say anything bad about the religion Islam, people on the left say I am a racist and a bigot. It's not a race, it's a religion. There is a difference.
This is an old question with me. I believe that you have on
one hand the ethnic Jew and on the other religious Jew which
in most cases are combined.
Cleo, there is no distinction. there is no such thing as a half Jew, an ethnic Jew, or whatever. Either you are Jewish, or you are not. The distinction between converts and born Jews at that at the Holy Temple, the converts could not go into the inner court. They were not chosen by G-d, but they were precious to G-d. Many Jews are atheists, but they are still Jews. I guarantee that whether they were atheists or not, they were still slaughtered in the Holocaust because of their birthright.
Putting Hitler ahead of Moses--very bad idea.
I am not a rabbi nor am I an expert.But as an Orthodox Jew, a few observations.
Israel was created after the Holocaust to be a Jewish homeland, a country where all Jews can reside, presumably safely and without persecution. But essentially, Israel's founders , although Jewish, were not Orthodox and Torah observant. This has caused a division within Israel between the Orthodox and the Secular inhabitants. Judaism as such is a religion, but it is much more than that. This cuts to the heart of the differences betweeen the Orthodox and the Secular factions. The secular consider Judaism as a religion, the Orthodox as a 24/7 way of life, governing just about everything we do.
It also at least partially explains the increasingly close affiliation between the Orthodox Jews and religious Christians: we both recognize that with everything we do it is with the A-Mighty deep within our consciousness. On the other hand, the more secular adherents seemingly limit their observance to a time and situation of their choosing.
Turning to modern-day politics, the "Palestinian" issue is basically a canard to make the Jewish population of Israel a minority, and thereby no longer render Israel as a Jewish state. The Orthodox, who recognize the intrinsic holiness of the Land of Israel, are generally much more reluctant to part with any land for "peace", while the more secular faction is less concerned with Israel's holiness. But we are all Jews, and we see it as our duty to try to educate those less committed to the truer meaning behind Judaism and the Land of Israel.
Both
Think of the Jews as a Tribe; a distinct People. Not a Race, and not just a religion, but something more.
Commonly translated as the "people" of Israel, not the "nation" of Israel.
The Jews are a people. They are not a closed system but have rigorous entrance requirements.
am (ayin mem) is translated as either nation or generic people depending on the context and in this context both apply. Am haaretz the context is generic peoplehood, am cohanim refers to nationality .also virtually all nations have ways to incorporate an alien be it citiazenship test or Halachic coversion mit a beis din.
I don't have a concordance here, but I wonder whether a search of the Torah's use of the word "am" would show it used to refer to any other nations (am prizi, am hitti, etc.)
Actually, people who have Reform or Conservative conversions can return under the Law of Return, however they are not considered Jewish.
I think (but don't know for sure) that people who have a Reform or Conservative conversion can return under the law of return only if they had a Jewish parent or grandparent (who also was not Jewish just because of a Conservative or Reform conversion).
No, they can return, but they are not identified by the Ministry of the Interior as Jews. It was a compromise of sorts.
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