Posted on 01/19/2005 7:38:59 AM PST by Valin
The man's correct!
Lee also did one helluva job in the war with Mexico.
Would you say the same thing about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson?
Seeing the past as black or white really doesn't add much to the conversation other than a sense of faux moral pride. What did you do to liberate the slaves Dude?
Happy Birthday Robert E. Lee. You can count me as an unreconstructed Southerner and proud member of the party of Lincoln. I appreciate and revere American history...all of it.
Go Condi! Thank you Gen. Powell- faithful servant
:o)
Robert E Lee was a great commander and a fine Christian.
He is a role model for military men everywhere.
Were it not for him and his fellow soldiers, the Yankees would ahve thoroughly anihilated everything about the South that gave it distinction and made it into an immediate copy of the North.
God bless Bobby Lee.
VA seceded after Winchester was burned to the ground over a dozen times.
I guess it *really* started to get next to them....:)
"Robert E. Lee represented a racist south - and one whose lasting legacy was the involuntary enslavement of others. This man should not be celebrated."
Lee's critics would never speak that way to his face were they there.
It takes a special kind of coward to show disrespect to a man that even his enemies admired.
In short, go ESAD, loser.
In 1856, he wrote to his wife, "In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral and political evil in any Country."
Lee believed that slaves should be emancipated gradually, their owners compensated, and the slaves trained and set up in steady jobs.
Lee never personally owned slaves. He was given charge of his father-in-law’s slaves after the man died. Lee freed them all, in slow stages. By the time Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, every slave in Lee’s charge had been freed.
Lee once urged Confederate president Jefferson Davis to emancipate all southern slaves and to allow "the use of… negroes as soldiers" to fight the Yankees. Davis rejected the plan.
After the war, Lee continued to set an example in treating black freedmen as equals.
At a service in St. Paul’s Episcopal Church in Richmond, a black man created a stir by rising to receive communion.
One witness reported that the parishioners "retained their seats in solemn silence and did not move," while the priest looked "embarassed."
It was Robert E. Lee who broke the ice. He strode up the aisle and knelt beside the black man to take communion. Others then rose and followed his lead.
"A throwback who failed to adapt and ultimately lost all power.
I consistently fail to see why these losers are lionized. "
That you cannot see why people, even his enemies, admired General Lee says far more about your craven shallow nature than it ever could say about Lee.
Maybe you should stop smoking crack and read a good book on the man.
Are you saying we still have "involuntary enslavement of others" in the U.S.? If not, what in the world do you mean by "lasting legacy"?
Blaming General Lee for the Moslems (today's major slaveholders) is a bit much, don't you think?
"Next thing you know, we'll celebrate Stalin & King George's birthday."
I am sure you already do celebrate Stalins birthday, doofus.
Read later.
p.s., "I before E, except after C."
1. um
2. er, uh
3. hmmmm
All that shows is how absurdly ignorant you are of Lee.
It is amazing that a man who accomplished as much as Lee could miss even your pea-brained attention.
Why not, at least by the same logic that some would celebrate Lee's birthday. After all, Stalin helped us defeat the Nazis. How about Rommel, sure he fought for the Nazis, but his writing showed he hated Nazism and Hitler. Why not celebrate his birthday too? Hell, he was even in a plot to try to kill Hitler.
Sure, Lee may have been a moral man against slavery, but he fought on the side that supported it. One can have all the beliefs they wish, but if they don't take a stand on principal their good moral don't count for much.
The fact is that he was a general of a defeated nation.
Lee fought for Virginia. He was against secession and against slavery. I said this on another thread, but I think it bears repeating. Men had a loyalty to the states of their birth that most of us don't have now. He could not bring himself to betray Virginia by fighting against her.
Happy Birthday General Lee!
wish I was in the land of cotton...
"My goal is to save the union. If I can do it without freeing the slaves, I will. If I must free every slave to do it, I will." - Abraham Lincoln
"If this war was about slavery I would fight for the South." - Ulysses S. Grant
This war was not about slavery, even though your communist schools taught you so.
In context, please. What Lee said was this:
"The views of the Pres: of the Systematic & progressive efforts of certain people of the North, to interfere with & change the domestic institutions of the South, are truthfully & faithfully expressed. The Consequences of their plans & purposes are also clearly set forth, & they must also be aware, that their object is both unlawful & entirely foreign to them & their duty; for which they are irresponsible & unaccountable; & Can only be accomplished by them through the agency of a Civil & Servile war. In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy. This influence though slow, is sure. The doctrines & miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years, to Convert but a small part of the human race, & even among Christian nations, what gross errors still exist! While we see the Course of the final abolition of human Slavery is onward, & we give it the aid of our prayers & all justifiable means in our power, we must leave the progress as well as the result in his hands who sees the end; who Chooses to work by slow influences; & with whom two thousand years are but as a Single day. Although the Abolitionist must know this, & must See that he has neither the right or power of operating except by moral means & suasion, & if he means well to the slave, he must not Create angry feelings in the Master; that although he may not approve the mode which it pleases Providence to accomplish its purposes, the result will nevertheless be the same; that the reasons he gives for interference in what he has no Concern, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbors when we disapprove their Conduct; Still I fear he will persevere in his evil Course. Is it not strange that the descendants of those pilgrim fathers who Crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom of opinion, have always proved themselves intolerant of the Spiritual liberty of others?"
I have a sister who, while she believes abortion to be wrong and is something that she would never have, does not believe that government should be in a position to dictate what a woman should do with her body. She believes herself to be anti-abortion. Most other anti-abortion people I know would consider her pro-abortion.
And that is the position Lee seems to be taking in his letter. He says that he believes slavery is wrong and that he may pray for it's end. But by the same token he does not believe that it is the job of government or anyone else to actively work to end slavery. It is up to God to end it in his own time. So is Lee anti-slavery? He may believe he was but others would certainly disagree.
By the time Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, every slave in Lee’s charge had been freed.
When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 the slaves were still in Lee's charge. He emancipated them a day before the Emancipation Proclamation became effective on January 1, 1863.
Lee once urged Confederate president Jefferson Davis to emancipate all southern slaves and to allow "the use of… negroes as soldiers" to fight the Yankees. Davis rejected the plan.
Lee is not on record as endorsing a plan to enlist southern blacks as combat soldiers until after the confederate congress proposed legislation to that effect in December of 1864. In a January 1865 letter, Lee did support the enlistment of blacks, including slaves, and did support freedom for those slaves conscripted. But he began his letter by noting the following:
"Considering the relation of master and slave, controlled by humane laws and influenced by Christianity and an enlightened public sentiment, as the best that can exist between the white and black races while intermingled as at present in this country, I would deprecate any sudden disturbance of that relation unless it be necessary to avert a greater calamity to both. I should therefore prefer to rely upon our white population to preserve the ratio between our forces and those of the enemy, which experience has shown to be safe. But in view of the preparations of our enemies, it is our duty to provide for continued war and not for a battle or a campaign, and I fear that we cannot accomplish this without overtaxing the capacity of our white population."
It should also be noted that the legislation allowing for black combat troops, finally passed by the confederate congress in March 1865, did not require slaves be freed after their enlistment was over.
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