Happy Birthday-Robert E Lee

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[olde north church]

Close but strike one. The commentary was a warning to someone who doesn't understand the Dixie Ping list. I didn't refer to Robert E. Lee at all. As far as Southern culture is concerned you might just have to specify the time. Current? Forty years ago with fire hoses and bombing of churches? Eighty years ago with lynching of blacks with the town gathered for the photo's? How about 160 years ago when you could own another human being simply by the amount of pigment in their skin?
The South of today is no better nor worse than any other part of the country from the Northwest to well, ok, not the Northeast, but any other segment. But do not regale me with fond tales of a bygone era. They exist only as fantasy for those descended from the owners, not the property.
Are we to overlook the Draft Riots in 1863 NYC when the Irish immigrants refused to submit the draft went on the rampage and lynched FREE BLACKS in the streets?
Perhaps we are to overlook the forced busing riots in Boston 1974?
There was also mass desertion of Federal troops after the Emancipation Proclamation.
Every state supplied troops to both Confederate and Federal cause.
Many of the states that comprised the Feds have large memberships in the Klan.
Learn.

[kimosabe31]

During the revolutionary war, EVERY SINGLE US STATE allowed slavery. Brittian did not, infact brittian even offered FREEDOM to ANY slave that would rise up and support the crown.

You make a very good point DixieO. In fact during the American Revolution, the tory governor of one of the southern states...might've been gov "whatzisface" of South Carolina or Georgia...a king george boot licker...recruited a tory slave army with the promise of emancipation for those that served. The response was significant with blacks enlisting in large numbers. However, as the tide of conflict turned in favor of the colonials, governor "whatzisface" felt it was mandatory to get the hell out or his neck was going to be stretched. So a major tory evacuation was ordered with King George loyalists boarding British ships along with their black volunteers and sailing off into the sweet bye and bye never to return to the deep south. End of story?? Not quite. For instead of emancipation, the darkey's who had so loyally served governor "whatzisface" and King George, were carried by that very same governor to the Carribean and resold into slavery enabling said governor to sail back to england with a full treasure chest. As in the case with all pious, breast beating emancipators, most likely including those on this thread...principal is always trumped by money.

[Atlantan]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, and I'd like to offer this with respect to slavery:

) Could it be that, on balance, the Negro race is better off having had the slavery experience in America than if it had never known slavery outside of Africa?

) Doesn't the fact that there were no general slave uprisings in the South during the War speak well of the relationship between master and slave?

) Shouldn't we differentiate between the personal slavery of the Old South and the impersonal slavery of ancient Egypt? Would a life lived as a slave in the household of General Lee be a detriment or a boon to a soul a few generations out of Africa?

) To what degree are the blacks of today the progeny of slave masters? Has the temperament of the Negro changed in America due to the introduction of Caucasian blood?

[IrishCatholic]

Boy howdy,
Speaking of learning, try a logic course. Your disjointed ramblings are the very thing I was warning about.

[olde north church]

Boy howdy,
Speaking of learning, try a logic course. Your disjointed ramblings are the very thing I was warning about.
Disjointed ramblings? That's what we call the "Just the fact's ma'am" method of debate. That facts are there without the couching of self-satisfied, ego-stroking.
Thanks.

[Patton@Bastogne]

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KMC1


Robert E. Lee represented a racist south - and one whose lasting legacy was the involuntary enslavement of others. This man should not be celebrated.


Maybe you have a point.

I'll telegaph Ulysses Grant (immediately) to inquire about the Civil Rights of Blacks, Irish and Italians in New York ...

and ask the honored president when he plans to enact "genuine" Child-Labor laws to free the ten-year old little girls and boys from 14-hour days in the Connecticut factories ...

and then submit legistaion for Delaware Congressional delgation that will curtain the "Yankee Financial Robber Barrons" from the financial Rape and Pillage they inflected upon the Good People of the United States ...

(LOL) ...


Patton@Bastogne
Free Republic Member since 1998.



General George S. Patton Jr. Website




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[IrishCatholic]

Swing and a miss. See? That is where the logic course would help you. Facts without context can easily lend to false premises and faulty conclusions. I just want the best for you. If you learn how to think then what to think is much easier. Good luck.

[olde north church]

You're inability to draw conclusion from fact is not logical.
You would give credence to your love of logic by taking your own advice. You also fall short in your attempt at smarm.
That will be all with you.
Good day.

[JFK_Lib]

"It may be true that the issue of slavery was not the sole cause of the Civil War, but only a fool would believe that the Civil War would ever have occurred had slavery not existed."

Well I may be a fool in your opinion, then, because it was the Morril Tarriffs that drove about half the southern states to secede, despite Lincolns assurances on slavery.

The other half seceded simply due to the demonstrated fact that a man could then win the Presidency without carrying a single state from the south.

I do, however, agree that without slavery the odds of wroking out some kind of compromise would have been far greater.

Slavery was a catalyst to the Civil War, but sometimes a catalyst is necesary for an effect that would not be possible otherwise.

We can speculate forever as to whether slavery was a necesary catalyst to the Civil War or not.

My hunch is we would have had that war anyway, without it.

I am just glad that slavery is ended and that the South gave a good accounting of itself before finally losing.

It could not have done so without Robert E. Lee.