Posted on 01/20/2005 11:28:41 AM PST by EveningStar
40 odd years ago, Jimmy Jacobs collected a large number of old boxing films. He compiled some of the highlights of those films and showed them to the boxing writers of the time. The writers were shocked at the relatively primative styles of legends like Jim Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, and Jim Jeffries. One writer said, "I didn't know whether to laugh or cry."
It was the consensus of the writers that of that group, only Jack Johnson could have competed with modern fighters.
Lets just face the facts here. Jack Johnson , his history and any crime he may have committed dont mean a thing to Ted Kennedy and McPain. Why has this come up? Because McPain and Ted Kennedy want to make a few points with the black community and figure they can us this against President Bush, who faces a lose-lose situation. Either way he goes someone will get offended and Ted and Mcpain hope he turns it down.
Jack Johnson is being used again just as he was used when they arrested him. Mcpain and Kennedy will use anyone from any era. Its Shameful.
Impossible though it may be, I'd like to see a round robin tourney involving the greatest heavyweights in history at their respective primes: Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Clay, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, and Holyfield. .....each fighting every other fighter in the field twice. It would be interesting to see who came out of that field with the best record, but I suspect it would be the fighter with the most dimensions to his game, both physically and mentally. .....and Johnson would be up there. Tyson would probably be at or near the bottom.
Terrell Owens? People dislike Terrell Owens because he's an asshole. I'm sick of this "people hate us and mistreat us because we're black." No, they hate you because you're a complete jerk and deserve an incredible stomping at the hands of the other team.
And puleeeeze! O.J. Simpson. Simpson couldn't have found his way to the 'hood with a map and a flashlight. He projected himself as a victim of a racist police department just long enough to secure an aquittal at the hands of one of the dumbest juries in American history and then tried to run back to white society. Who told him to stuff it. Not because he was black. But because he killed two people.
How could Johnson possibly be in danger of being "forgotten"? Hasn't anyone ever seen "The Great White Hope" starring James Earl Jones? The movie was made in 1968, and is replayed all the time. Great flick, well made, yet another great performance by Jones. And Ken Burns "discovered" this guy for the libs to cry over? Puh-leeez!
"He was prosecuted for the crime of having sex with a white woman. He served a year in Leavenworth.
That's your idea of freedom?"
For 14 years he carried on as the finest boxer alive, and maybe the best boxer in the century.
And he didnt live like some coward, hiding in a corner; he stuck his chin out and dared anyone to take him on.
If white society was so racist, as to be comparable to the Nazis, or so ruthless as the Communists, or such liars as are todays academian neoMarxists that run Americas humanities departments, then why did Johnson get away with this for so long?
For 14 years he was free to live large, and then some axeholes put him in prison on trumped up charges.
Hmmm, wanna bet that they were DEMOCRATS like Earl Warren or Senator Byrd?
America is free and more free then than Europe is today.
And Jack Johnson would not have whined about it and would not have consorted with those willing to whine on his behalf.
I'd put my money on Marciano, Johnson and Ali for top three.
What about you?
Say what you will about the nutball thug, but Mike Tyson in his prime has to be ranked in there as well. Nobody could even touch him. Too bad he didn't have superior rivals to define him, as the greats you mention had.
Those would be my top three as well, although it would be difficult to pick an order. .....Holmes could also be up there.
He also enjoyed opera, studied history, and had a few patents to his name. Not exactly "gangsta."
This was actually done in the late 1960's using computer sims and films of mock fights between the contestants. The result was Marciano knocking out Ali in the final bout. Ali, himself, after filming the mock fights told of how frightening Marciano was in the ring.
What happened was that the mock punches started getting serious, and Marciano hit Ali on his arm. Ali couldn't lift that arm for days.
I think Tyson in his prime would have done well in that simulation. The problem with him was that his mental attitude cut that prime very short.
You think Tyson was past his prime at 23 years old? ...'cause that's how old he was when he lost to (lowly) Buster Douglas. And he never beat a good fighter after that (with the possible exception of Razor Ruddock). In fact, Tyson never beat a top-notch fighter in his whole career. (Holmes was an old man when they fought, and he lost to Holyfield in both their fights).
Tyson, is most overrated heavyweight in history, without question.
"Say what you will about the nutball thug, but Mike Tyson in his prime has to be ranked in there as well. Nobody could even touch him. Too bad he didn't have superior rivals to define him, as the greats you mention had."
Well, I respect Tysons power, but I think (as a total diletante at follwoing boxing) that Ali could have handled him, like he did Foreman who also had a huge punch.
Marciano would have had to endure the punches, but he had an iron chin, even if his nose wasnt.
I am pretty sure that the defensive skills of Johnson would ahve let Tyson tire himself out by the 7th round.
Tyson was great for a few years, but I think much of that was in contrast to the dirth of boxing skill today. It isnt seen as a way up for bright quick kids and so it seems the skills have dropped a bit since the 1950s or so.
Marciano had stamina like nobody's business. .....non-stop punching until the job was done. That IS frightening, especially when combined with huge power and mental toughness.
Even Ali, who I would put at the top of fighters I've seen, had "down" fights in his prime. Ali was much smarter and better disciplined than Tyson (a huge understatement), so he didn't have the same disastrous results. Still, it's hard to discount Tyson's power and instinct.
Silly you! Don't you know that America is the most racist, terrible, unfair place on the face of the Earth? In fact, it's such a fascist, racist place that blacks are not allowed to have success in entertainment, sports, politics, or business, and nobody can even make a movie or write anything criticizing... oh, well, never mind.
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