Posted on 01/21/2005 5:08:41 PM PST by quidnunc
You keep dreaming, and don't let that nasty pudenda stuff get to ya, kook.
Now, am I defending the Moslem position or the Church of the Nazarene position?
In my very first posting on this thread I noted that other religious groups have their own dress codes ~ that Moslems do not have a monopoly in the matter.
Apparantly you don't track ideas through these threads very well. Maybe you should try one that's easier, e.g. Mexican Trucks on Texas Highways ~ something like that ~
When Ali assumed caliphate, he had deposed the Egyptian governor, Abi Sarah in favour of the famous Ansar chief, Qais bin Sa'd bin Ubaida. This seasoned warrior of Islam, proud of his lineage and sincerely devoted to the Hashimites, was famed for his wisdom and diplomacy, qualities which were to stand him in good stead during his governorship. Muawiya tried to take Qais bin Sa'd to his side, but failed. Thus, Muawiya spread a rumour that Qais had joined the party of Muawiya. Ali had full trust on Qais, but his men wanted to appoint another governor in Egypt. Ali then appointed Muhammad bin Abu Bakr as the governor of Egypt. The ground in Egypt had certainly been prepared well in advance by Muawiya's propaganda. In the meantime, Muawiya sent 6000 soldiers in command of Amr bin al-A'as in Egypt. Realising the failure of Muhammad bin Abu Bakr, Ali now sent hasty orders to Ashtar in Iraq, appointing him the new governor of Egypt. Muawiya bribed the chief of Qulzum in whose house Ashtar would almost stay on the way to Egypt, to poison the general. So Ali lost his most staunch of all his supporters, Ashtar, not on the battlefield, but at the table of a man whose loyalty had been bought by Muawiya and who had poisoned the honey which he offered his guest. Ali had no alternative but to ask Muhammad bin Abu Bakr to continue in the office and to hang on as best he could. Ali was yet able to send 2000 crack troops under the command of Tujibite Kinana by way of reinforcement. Other authorities maintain that once again, the Kufans would do nothing to help Ali and that, after fifty days of haranguing them from the pulpit, Ali still had managed to muster only 200 volunteers. These he is said to have sent to Egypt, but the long delay had already proved fatal. Hardly had they left Kufa when the news came of the total defeat of Muhammad bin Abu Bakr's forces and his ugly death. Having fled from the battlefield, Muhammad took shelter in some nearby ruins where he was discovered by Muawiya bin Hudaija, who dragged him out and slain. His corpse was wrapped in an ass-skin and burned. The ignominious end of Muhammad bin Abu Bakr sealed the fate of Egypt for Ali. Muawiya occupied Egypt and appointed Amr bin al-A'as as his lieutenant to rule it in his name, and the newly conquered country, with its immense rich resources became incorporated in the Syrian empire.
When Egypt was lost, in one of his sermons to the Kufans, Ali summed up the loss in these words: "O ye people! In the hour of need you have kept aloof from me, like a restive camel when it casts its burden. Lo and behold! The son of Abu Bakr falls, and with him, Egypt too." Things hence became bleak and dreary. Alarmed by the news of Ali's depressive state of mind, his cousin Abdullah bin Abbas, the governor of Basra, set out for Kufa, hoping to rally Ali's spirit. Muawiya immediately took advantage of Ibn Abbas's absence from Basra to send an expedition of 2000 horses under the command of Ibn Hadrami. The then deputy governor of Basra, Ziyad bin Abihi, found himself unable to oppose the invader and took to flight, seeking refuge with the neighbouring tribe of Banu Azd. From here he wrote to Ali, asking for aid. Ali sent such troops as he could mustered, and with this reinforcement, Ziyad was able to give battle to the Syrians, near Basra, where he routed the enemy. Basra thus reclaimed for Ali, who reappointed Ibn Abbas as governor, but Ali's hold over the city remained precarious. The expedition to Basra was Muawiya's first attempt at invading Ali's territory and although the defeat inflicted on Syrian forces was decisive the victory for Ali was to prove only a temporary one.
In the same year of 37/659, a section of the Kharijis hatched rebellion against Ali, led by Khirrit bin Rashid of Banu Najiya. Ali attempted to appease the new rising by inviting Khirrit to come and discuss the matters with him, but Khirrit and his followers left the town in disgust and fled to Ahwaz. Here he incited the Iranians, the Kurds and the Christians to withhold payment of taxes to Ali's government. Other disgruntled warriors soon joined him and in a short time he had raised a considerable army, which invaded and occupied Fars, defeating the Alid governor who sought safety in flight. Ali now sent his Kufan general Muquil bin Qais al-Tamimi against Khirrit, who was subdued at Ramhurmuz. In all, Ali was forced to send Muquil against Khirrit twice more. In the third and last encounter, Khirrit and the 170 soldiers, who made up his personal force, were wiped out to a man. Ali appointed Ziyad, the deputy governor of Basra, to rule over Fars.
Grown fat on the resources of Egypt, the Syrians now began to cast covetous eyes on Iraq. Muawiya accordingly deputed Noman bin Bashir to ravage Ayn Tamr, Sufian bin Awf to attack Hit and Anbar, Abdullah bin Masada al-Fazari to invade Taima and Dahhak bin Qais to subdue Qutqutana. According to Yaqubi (d. 284/898) in "at-Tarikh" (Beirut, 1960) and Waqidi (d. 207/822) in "Kitab al-Maghazi" (ed. von Kremer, Calcutta, 1856), Muawiya himself came out with these troops to lead them towards Iraq, going as far as Tigris, before returning to Damascus. Apparently these were plundering expeditions, their ostensible aim was to harass Ali. Ali went forth himself into the field almost unattended. On this the men of Kufa, partly from shame, partly lured by promise of increased stipends, marched to the defence of their frontier. One of Ali's commanders, with a flying column, pursued the raiders back into the heart of Syria as far as Balbek; and thence turning northward, escaped by Rakka again into Iraq. On the other side, Muawiya made an incursion right across Iraq, and for some days remained encamped on the banks of Tigris. After leisurely inspecting Mosul, he made his way back to Damascus unmolested.
...a very poor islamapologist, defending the illegal destruction of private property, in the name of your religious convictions, and in support of your brothers in Islam.
Seriously sick and unAmerican.
The screen name as well as the overall "oh foolish infidels" flavor to most of your comments peg you as one of THEM, not a disciple of God's Son, Jesus Christ.
Laughable it is that you think this is a debate you are winning some kind of 'points' on. taqiyah somebody else.
Concerning "equating" Muawiyah to Jefferson, if you'd bother to read what I said I did not "equate" anybody to anyone.
You seem to have this thing about "equate", like if Brother 1 is mentioned in the same breath as Brother 2, then both are the same man, that is, they are "equated".
What you have done is confound our standard retort to the leftwingnuts with the rules of grammar. They are not the same.
As far as Muawiyah being a Jeffersonian, he would have liked Jefferson a lot. Then there was this business about Jefferson rewriting the Bible!
Just like Mohammad.
Doesn't mean Jefferson is being "equated" with Mo, but didn't both of these guys own slaves at one time or the other?
Let me tell you, Muawiyah, Mo and Jefferson could have sat down around the same table and rationally discussed the world in the same terms without difficulty.
BTW, my thoughts on the matter are considered as heretical with Islamofascists as they are with you. Doesn't mean I am equating you with an Islamofascist ~ just your bad attitude on that particular issue.
You've taken the statement out of it's context. Typical.
Look, lots and lots of water's gone under the bridge since Ambler v. Euclid. Developers have learned to live with planning and zoning and to love it!
whatever you say freak show.
One imagines that many non-Moslem Brits are as upset about it all as are the Moslem Brits.
We have the same problem here where jackbooted thugs sit at the bench and dispense justice as they see it rather than as has been prescribed by the people's legislative bodies.
Revolutions do tend to start with a bit of vandalism don't they?!
Try "C033 Pandering Advertisements Summary C033 describes instructions for how recipients of sexual material may file" in the USPS Domestic Mail Manual .
For some reason you seem to be unaware of this rule which leads me to believe that you are NOT in the porn business. If you were you'd know all about it.
Yes, it is true, if somebody sends you certain materials in the mail you can obtain a prohibitory order!
You might go back and read what I said on the matter earlier since I was not making an argument, just pointing to some cold, hard facts.
A picture of a nipple will usually be sufficient to allow issuance of a prohibitory order. A picture of a statue will not be sufficient.
Seems pretty clear to me, but then again maybe it's too fine a line for you. Still, you're not the one complaining about it ~ so you may continue to receive all the free porn you wish through the mail.
Go bother them in Bartcop or something eh?!
night night abu.
why do you want to send me dirty porn crap in my mail?
are you daft?
bug off idiot.
I'm not sending it to you. On the other hand, I have had occasion to get to know folks in the industry and they'd be glad to add you to their lists if you don't feel you're getting enough of it.
what are you ranting about now lune?
something to do with your taqiya story about the post office and nazarenes or is it the disciples of christ, or catholics or what? Who even cares?
I don't know or care about your supposed 'stories,' and whatever else you want to chat about regarding statues, nipples, pictures of nipples, or anything else.
you side with lawbreakers who destroy private property.
that means it's the end of considering ANY thing you say to be reasonable.
so then. good night.
Just go back to Bartcop or DU where you belong.
Let them get away with this, they'll move on to the next level. Pretty soon they're censoring anything they don't like with any tactic they wish to use...
This is a must read - it's short but very informative
The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion
per capita in the United States, especially in the
minority races!!!
Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes
Last month I attended my annual training session
that's required for maintaining my state prison
security clearance. During the training session there
was a presentation by three speakers representing the
Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
explained each of their belief systems
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam
had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the
basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for
questions and answers.
When it was my turn, I directed my question to the
Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but
I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam
have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world. And, that by killing an
infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are
assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can
you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and,
without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"
I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this
straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded
to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can
go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
The __expression on his face changed from one of
authority and command to that of a little boy who had
just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He
sheepishly replied, "Yes."
I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem
trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all
Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley
ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
Heaven!"
The Imam was speechless.
I continued, "I also have problem with being your
friend when you and your brother clerics are telling
your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question.
Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill
me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me
to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants
you to be with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as
the Imam hung his head in shame.
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of
the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy
with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and
exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
I think everyone in the US should be required to read
this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal
media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be
widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your
e-mail contacts.
This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a
well known leader in prison ministry.
Even the courts use violence or the threat of violence.
A fine involves "violence" since, if you don't pay it, they will take your stuff away to pay the fine, or imprison you, and that's pretty violent.
Violence, per se, is not the problem here. In fact, in an earlier time the billboards and other posters these people are objecting to would have been kept under control by the government (through violence). Today, that same government has an appetite for such things and threatens violence against those who object to the change.
Civil disobedience has an ancient and honorable past, particularly when the only "violence" is against inanimate objects and not people. The regular crafting of violence against people is part of the business of government and should therefore be minimized. The best way to do that is to remove the judges who refuse to enforce the laws enacted by the people's legislature.
They're not ~ only some of them ~ the Democrats ~ are!
BTW, you want to see some real violence, don't pay your taxes. That'll get a stir you won't believe.
Neighbor of mine was an enforcement agent at IRS. Once upon a time he refused to let this lady and her baby cross the police line at a building they were seizing for non-payment of taxes.
He got fired for that. IRS does not, after all, seize or kidnap babies - YET!
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