Posted on 01/22/2005 1:27:28 PM PST by foolscap
I tutor some kids from my church. Some of the high school material is incedibly dumb, and I can see why 30% of Fullerton State University (CA) students have to take remedial English.
On the other hand, a couple of my kids are in the International Baccleureate program at their high school. They are taking AP Art History classes in 10th grade, that are the equal of the Intro To Art History course that I took in college. They are also taking AP calculus in 11th grade. I think that today there is a much greater gap between the bright motivated students and the plodders in high school than when I went to high school in the late 60s. Two of my Sunday School students went to Berekeley last Fall. They are VERY bright kids who have godly, education-oriented Korean parents.
It depends on what you think the purpose of the grading should be (and hence, the purpose of the "A").
Presumably, even at Princeton, there is a rank order of effort and ability, from low to high. If the purpose of the grades is to rank the students from highest to lowest (within the universe that is Princeton), then giving them all "A"s defeats that purpose.
These exams at Princeton are not qualifying exams, like medical boards or a bar exam. It should be possible, if the examiners know the material, to rank every student, by letter grade, from #1 to n.
Sorry if you took the comment I made about us both misspelling the same word in different ways as mocking.
It was not intended that way at all. I can spell but can't type. Did you notice that I also misspelled funny in that same paragaph? Frankly I think it's hysterical would hope in the light of this explanation you get at least a smile.
In the college I taught in there were departmental exams, and the grades from those were averaged in with the class exams. There was also some kind of weighting factor (something like departmental exam = 2 class exams)
I did not enter the phrase "top student" and don't know how it got there. I'm pretty new so maybe someone could tell me how to prevent it. I wasn't a top student except in my major and miinors.
I dispute that this premise will necessarily occur, especially the higher and higher you get. I believe it is possible to get a group of hard-working students of roughly equal ability who want to learn.
What's wrong with 90-100 = A; 80-89 = B; 70-79 = C; 60-69 = D and the rest is an "F?"
The Ivy League is such a mess.
I agree 100%.
A lot of grad classes are like that.
I think there may be some confusion between A level mastery of the material and average of grades on exams. A curve has the potential of making a student with 95% mastery a C student in a high achieving class.
There is no reason why we can not, or should not, each be able to get an "A."
In real life 5% of the people earn 80 to 90% of the money. In real life they are getting A's.
As long as higher education lives in a cocoon, I have no problem with 35% of the class getting A's. Hell, make it 40%, or even 50% getting A's.
If the schools want to prepare the students for real life (and the evidence is that isn't even on the list) they would limit A's to some reasonable percentage closer to 5%.
You're not all gonna get A's after you leave the school cocoon. Count on it.
I didn't in undergrad either.
In a math class? You can't grade on a curve on that.
They either get the Questions right or not. It is very possible for an entire class to ace every test, with a very good teacher.
I read that to mean that a large percentage of the class should be able to get A's.
My mistake.
I agree. The criteria should be whether you are fit to do the job for which you are credentialed.
Wouldn't a very good teacher design the course so that the best students would be 'raised' above the average students?
Keep in mind that Ivy League grads are already the top (some small) percent of the population.
And there is no quota system on, say, millionaires.
Both are good points.
What can you say or do as a teacher?
You present factual material to a group of people. You explain it in such a manner they can grasp it and apply it. You test to see if they grasped it.
What, you want to the teacher to be obtuse on purpose?
The other reason for grade inflation which they don't mention, which started about the same time as grade inflation, is "student evaluations." When the instructor is going to be seen as a poor teacher if his scores aren't high enough, and perhaps be fired (if not tenured), that can lead him to grade more leniently. Student evaluations are the weapon students have to punish a professor who tries to make them work hard for a grade.
When posters begin to editorialize my comments I realize I've won the argument.
You know, and I know, and everyone reading this knows that that isn't what I meant.
Why did you find it necessary to twist what I said from something with constructive potential into something destructive?
"...When posters begin to editorialize my comments I realize I've won the argument.
You know, and I know, and everyone reading this knows that that isn't what I meant...."
Yup. That's how I know when I've won, too.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.