Posted on 01/25/2005 10:40:25 AM PST by NativeTexun
Did anyone see Dan Abrams' report last night? I got in on the last of it but it seems the Williams family has been on "morning news shows" talking about their son, Johnny Williams Jr., suspect in the murder/abduction of Megan Holden from a Tyler, Texas Wal-Mart parking lot.
Several attorneys and some military vets were discussing the implications of PTSD. One question being tossed around was whether or not it would be wise to have any vets on the jury when Williams is tried.
Having shopped at another Wal-Mart in Tyler on Sunday night of this week, I talked with an older gentleman that is always at the door in the evenings ..he's the one who makes sure you get your cart and puts stickers on items brought in for return. He said he knew Miss Holden and that she'd proudly stopped by a week ago to show him her new truck. He went on to say that had it been that store and they saw someone loitering they'd alert police as to a suspicious person. He said, tho it can't be confirmed as fact, that Williams had even changed clothes in the restroom during his 2 1/2 hours of loitering at the other WM location.
He went on to say that he was a WWII vet and that he didn't come home nor did any of his buddies "messed up" enough to do something like Williams. We discussed that a bit and concurred that it's a much different world today ... drug use wasn't rampant back then, people had a sense of responsibility and pride and duty, etc.
Asked several employees I know from my frequent visits there if anything had changed and it was stated that women were supposed to now "go out" in pairs. When I left with two carts full of items, I had three escorts to my car, two men who loaded my items and the CSR (female) whose line I always got in because she's so darned nice and an efficient checker. She had previously always insisted I had an escort to my car ..sometimes I rather scoffed that I'd be okay .. but now I really appreciate her concern.
Wonder if the Holden tragedy is prompting NBC's Nightly News series this week on returning troops and if enough is done for them. Anyone else see this last night? _______________________________________________________ William's Mother Speaks To KLTV
Williams Family Interview
"I didn't know him to be a violent person, a hateful person. I just knew him to be a caring son."
That's how Patricia Williams described her son before going into the Marines. But after going through combat, she says he changed.
"He stayed to himself a lot. Some of the things he encountered in Iraq was hard for him to deal with," she says."I heard just today he had shared with some family that he had to kill three people or be killed."
Patricia says it was just too much for her son to deal with.
"He'd say mom some of the stuff they make you do is all messed up," she explained. "He told me he was very angry. I knew he was depressed, I knew he was hurting. He was having flashbacks of some stuff he had to do when he was in Iraq."
She says his depression grew every month and in December they tried to seek help for him from the military, but to this day, they have not heard back from them.
"They trained him to go to war and to kill. I don't know how many months went into that training but how many months went into getting him back to living in society."
Even though they feel their son suffered greatly, the Williams family doesn't deny what their son has been accused of is horrific.
"I don't condone what has been said to be true, but I love him. The son I know is not the person that has done these acts. It is not my son. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened."
This family who has always relied on the Lord for strength say they are once again turning to God for help and pray nothing like this ever happens again. They say their prayers are with the Holden family.
Michelle Mortensen, reporting.
I saw Mrs. Williams interviewed and my heart went out to her. No matter what my child did, I would love her. But her son is still a murderer. Mrs. Holden will never have a daughter return home to her because of Mrs. Williams' son. I know that war does mess up some people and I'm very sorry. But I don't buy that they can get that evil if there wasn't a predisposition to it. He had plenty of time to consider what he was planning to do and change his mind. It's why we have the death penalty.
Hi!
>>I saw Mrs. Williams interviewed and my heart went out to her. <<
What network? I heard it was a "morning news show." Sorry that I missed it since I live in Tyler and this hits so close to home.
>>I know that war does mess up some people and I'm very sorry. But I don't buy that they can get that evil if there wasn't a predisposition to it.<<
Will be interesting to see what the trial reveals about his background ... probably lots of things his mother doesn't know about and more things to break her heart. It's a burden she'll bear for life and a stigma as well.
>> He had plenty of time to consider what he was planning to do and change his mind. <<
I agree. He lives 20 miles away from the Wal-Mart and it's reported that it is not known how he got there that night.
>> ((((Crispy fried in Texas)))) <<
Lots of crispy frying in Texas ... chicken-fried steak, fried chicken and criminals.
I don't buy it. Not one damn bit. If this were true we would see explosions in violent senseless crime after every war. This is another mother refusing to call her child the monster he is.
I strongly suspect that his time in the Marines was a respite from dysfunctionality in his social and family life, dysfunctionality that he returned to upon leaving the Marines. His parent's and his actions would appear to support this assertion and I wonder why the MSM doesn't give the total picture instead of focusing on the military and letting his parent's spout self serving recriminations at the Marines. A crock of MSM BS IMO.
not known how he got there that night
Interesting. I didn't know that. I have a daughter who works at night and walks to her car. This has really scared me.
>>This is another mother refusing to call her child the monster he is. <<
I imagine that's a hard thing for any mother to do. And I doubt she'd ever declare it publicly even if she thot it to be true.
Most mothers do their best with what they know ... when children leave home they make their own decisions .. right or wrong ... some kids with great parents have turned out "rotten." Some kids with rotten parents have turned out exceptionally well.
From accounts I read, it appears he was some kind of clerk and didn't even see that much active combat.
The pundits on Abrams report were talking last night of other psychiatric disorders Williams might have that caused him to "self-medicate" ... i.e. cocaine and marijuana use.
Megan Holden's family is the only family i want to hear from in this gruesome killing. Johnny Williams is a cold-blooded murderer and should be executed ASAP.
>>Interesting. I didn't know that. I have a daughter who works at night and walks to her car. This has really scared me. <<
TV news reports last night said there was an increased interest in gun purchase and other protection devices i.e. mace and pepper spray.
I can't condone it, but it's certainly understandable. Especially when you're wracking your brains, trying to figure out where you went wrong as a parent. Sometimes, parents don't, necessarily. I think some people are predisposed to do evil things when they get the chance, no matter their upbringing. I feel sorry for her, but her son deserves to fry for what he did. She would be better served to say that she loves her son and will support him, even if she can't condone what he's done. Making excuses doesn't help. But I can understand the urge to do so.
P.S. ..
Here's more on Williams' military history from:
http://www.nbc56.com/artman/publish/article_1157.shtml
Williams' Military History
By Constance Jones
Jan 24, 2005, 15:36
An official from Camp Pedleton in California says that Johnny Lee Williams is still classified as a Marine. He was given a dishonorable discharge for marijuana use and was demoted from Lance Corporal to Private in February 2004.
He's appealing that decision.
Williams served with the Marines for just over two years before the drug charge was filed.
In May 2003, williams was stationed in iraq-- for at least six months, during the first wave of attacks in operation iraqi freedom.
While in Iraq-- he served as a logistics clerk- which means he tracked the movement of tanks and equipment.
Williams was awarded several medals for his service but none of the awards indicate that he served on the battlefield or witnessed any warfare.
Mrs. Williams is suffering from "Scott Peterson Syndrome". My boy -- no way.
From http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2844391
1/22/05-Tyler
Family Of Megan Holden Releases Statement
"We would like to thank all the people in America, our country, our community, our friends and family for all the love and support and prayers in this difficult time. We will tell you more about our Megan at a later time. Please continue to pray for us throughout this time and beyond. We have a long road ahead of us, please give us our time to mourn. A fund is in the process of being set-up. More information will be available at a later date. And last but not least, let us not forget to say thank you for the support and help from all the law enforcement in surrounding areas. From the Megan Holden family, may God bless all of you."
The following Post's analogy re: these parents exhibiting the "Scott Peterson" syndrome is right on target. Their eyes are closed to the reality of their son, a practice that IMO 'Enabled' him in his monstrosity.
His parent's apparent blind acceptance and groping for an explanation in his military service only reinforces my opinion that they should look more to a mirror for reasons why their son is so antisocial yet apparently never received any help with what must have been obvious problems.
the only 'protection' device my 3 daughters will have is a metal one with Sig Sauer stamped on the side... preferably with a .45 but I'll settle on 9mm...
I told my wife when I bought her a pistol that if somebody breaks into the house I better find 28 bullet holes in the walls or bad guys, and she should be reloading both clips as the cops arrive....... or I'm gonna be p#ssed.
Expect the defense and their family to use Racism as their defense. I mean its not his fault - slavery is still going strong right? and it isnt fair for blacks to be held to the same laws. Michael Jacksons family has now said it was all about racism - he would never molest little boys. OJ got a jury to believe that it was all racism - no way he would have a motive and blood traced to him. There arent many black quaterbacks - you know that has got to be racism - who wants to have the best team? you know the owners dont want to win they are just worried about the race make up on the team. Not enough CEO that are black - bingo thats racism. Blacks have lower test scores than every other race in America most definitely proves racism - white America has a secret plan of giving different tests and scoring them differently to blacks. Everything is just about racism dont you know - this guy should definitely get off and white America should be put on trial for allowing this to happen (sarcasm alert).
>>Thanks for the info<<
You're welcome.
Here's more detail from Tuesday's Tyler Morning Telegraph ...www.tylerpaper.com
(the following comment is interesting and true .. East Texas juries don't go lightly on the criminal element..."especially with how aggressive East Texas' courts are in these types of cases," he said.)
MILITARY CONNECTION
Williams began having problems with the law in 2004 when he was court-martialed by the Marine Corps for marijuana use.
Lt. Col. T.V. Johnson, USMC press officer at Camp Pendleton, Calif., said Williams was court-martialed on Feb. 26, 2004, but was still "technically a Marine, because Williams had filed an appeal under the Uniform Code of Military Justice guidelines."
"This is the only case I can talk about, because it involved a court martial. I cannot say whether or not he (Williams) had any other troubles while he was an active Marine," he said. "He was out on appeals and technically was not discharged from the Marine Corp until this matter could be reviewed," he said.
Johnson said records indicate Williams did one tour of duty with the 3rd Light Armored Division during Iraqi Freedom as a logistics clerk.
"It is unclear how much if any action he was a part of or how long his tour lasted. It (the record) just states he was there in that capacity," he said.
In December 2004, Williams was arrested for possession of cocaine and was released from the Smith County Jail on bond the same day.
"I don't know how likely it would've been to have the conviction (the court-martial) appealed. It looked like a straightforward case. And with the arrest he had in Tyler in December, then I can say with 100 percent certainty that conviction would have been upheld," he said.
Although Williams is still a Marine, Johnson said it was "very unlikely" the military branch would get involved with the new charges that Williams now faces as a result of the abduction and death of Ms. Holden.
"We (the Marines) will let him face these charges before any hearings. It would not be in the government's best interest to get involved with this case, especially with how aggressive East Texas' courts are in these types of cases," he said.
Williams' mother went on "Good Morning America" Monday to tell of her son's change after serving in Iraq.
"He was a happy-go-lucky kid growing up, but after his service in the Marines, he was different. He was quiet. He was off to himself and he couldn't sleep," she said.
Martin County Sheriff Randy Cozart said he believed Smith County would be the body of government filing murder charges.
When asked how many murders occur in Martin County in any given year, Cozart replied, "To be truthful, I believe this is the first murder that my department has worked in about 12 years. We have had a few in the city, but none that my office has been involved in," he said.
Williams remains in the Cochise County Jail on an aggravated kidnapping charge with no bond. He also faces aggravated robbery charges in Cochise County and in Odessa, where authorities say he robbed a convenience store.
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