Posted on 01/28/2005 6:41:49 PM PST by Lorianne
LOS ANGELES - Movies like "Braveheart" and "Legends of the Fall" are on the viewing list for men in a growing Christian movement that calls for them to throw off their "nice guy" personas and emulate warriors.
The book which inspired the movement, John Eldredge's "Wild at Heart," has already sold 1.5 million copies in English and been translated into 16 languages, most recently Korean.
Eldredge believes many Christian men have become bored, "really nice guys" and invites them to rediscover passion by viewing their life's mission as having a battle to fight, an adventure to live and a beauty to rescue.
"The modern era has brought up immense conveniences but at what price. The human heart is desperate for something more than a quicker serving of popcorn," Eldredge said in a recent interview.
Eldredge calls on men to be prepared to take risks and rediscover their dreams but does not provide a specific route to find, for example, an adventure to live. Career, marriage and family become heroic quests rather than chains which bind.
He focuses on how men can become less passive and "engage" those around them, particularly their wives and children.
"The guy who sits in front of the television is unengaged. That man is a bad man. They (children) need engagement whether it is playing on the floor with your 1-year-old or tougher games when they are 15 (years old)," he said.
Eldredge said he has been astounded by the response to his book with momentum gathering steadily since the book was published in 2001 by Christian publisher Thomas Nelson.
Men have been flocking to retreats and forming small groups to study it. Some are organized by Eldredge and his team, but many are just informally arranged by readers of the book. These groups have sprung up as far away Kazakhstan and even among tribes along the Amazon River in South America.
"It has become something of a grass-roots wildfire," Eldredge said.
Jim Chase, an advertising copywriter from La Crescenta, California, has had a replica of the sword actor Mel Gibson used when he played legendary Scottish warrior William Wallace in "Braveheart" hanging above his desk since attending a Wild at Heart retreat with 350 other men last year.
"It is just a reminder that we are in a battle every day. It can be just facing boredom and routine, but it is a battle," Chase said.
"Life isn't just about going to work and sitting in front of a computer and bringing in as much money as you can. We all have a story. God has written a story and we are meant to find out what the story is and live it," Chase said.
He said, for example, that the book inspired him to teach his 15-year-old son to ride a motorcycle.
Eldredge, who is a trained counselor and worked for 13 years for Christian organization Focus on the Family, said we are currently living in a "fatherless age" with many men having abandoned their children if not physically then emotionally.
His own father was an alcoholic who after some good years when Eldredge was young became increasingly distant. Chase had lost his father, who he described as "very cold," just a few months before he attended the retreat.
"A lot of what it brings out is how much you are impacted by your own father. What role model he set for you and how God relates to us as the big father," Chase said.
Eldredge said he used characters such as Mel Gibson's warrior Wallace in "Braveheart" because the characters often embody men who are engaging their passions by fighting noble battles, rescuing women and finding adventure.
CHRISTIAN CRITICS
The movement has stirred controversy, attracting criticism from some Christian leaders who fear he may just be reinforcing stereotypes.
While some women have welcomed suddenly receiving flowers and more attention from their husbands, in the long-term there are concerns about the impact on marriages.
"The basic premise that men need a princess to rescue has set back male female relationship in the church by 30 years. He sanctifies a mythological view of 1950s malehood," said Chapman Clark, associate professor of youth, family, and culture at Fuller Seminary in Pasadena, California.
"It is destructive (to marriages) in the long-term," Clark said, adding that treating women as a figurine rather that the personal image of God will hurt relationships over time.
Clark said Eldredge had tapped into an angst among middle-aged white men who are dissatisfied with their lives and for whom depression had become a very serious problem.
Eldredge acknowledged the movement would be judged based on the impact it has on family life.
"The real test of this ("Wild at Heart") is does it make life better for women? Does it make life better for children? We have received letters from women who are immensely grateful. Marriages have been restored," Eldredge said.
- REUTERS
Upon the occurence of 9/11 I started taking aggressive deadly martial arts www.attackproof.com
I started shooting target, have both handguns and a Mossberg Shotgun. I train weights a few times per week.
I am a machine of pain to those who threaten my family, country, and self.
Too many men are phyisically weak mentally weak and not prepared to defend themselves.
The time is ripe for Christians as a collective to become more vocal, and if and when necessary, more militant. It's a matter of life or death.
agreed
The time is ripe for Christians as a collective to become more vocal, and if and when necessary, more militant. It's a matter of life or death.
Hence the Amish coming out to vote, when they never did before. Very strong statement there!
~~~"The basic premise that men need a princess to rescue..."~~~
...is basically true, IMO, keeping in mind it's a mutual rescue. Life is lonely and the possibility of true love is open to all. No one should miss it. It's the third greatest gift from God.
Here's an example of how a woman remembers a man who, no doubt, would not be guest-starring on "Will & Grace."
Sonnet II
Time does not bring relief; you all have lied
Who told me time would ease me of my pain!
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
Heaped on my heart, and my old thoughts abide
There are a hundred places where I fear
To go,—so with his memory they brim
And entering with relief some quiet place
Where never fell his foot or shone his face
I say, "There is no memory of him here!"
And so stand stricken, so remembering him!
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Well, let the media caricature all they want. That's all they have. But I can't help but be reminded of the scene in 'Unforgiven' where the writer of Westerns comes up against the real thing--William Munny. The only reason the media has a good time with it is that there is too much of 'turning the other cheek'. This is the same media that mollycoddles terrorists, and buries stories which hurt their agenda.
Or maybe El Cid and Vlad Tepes. Either way, I have no problem with it.
Liberalism in general has emasculated western men.
From a news article:
"-Ecumenism. In their eagerness to spread the Good News and draw people in, the fundamentalists say, the Promise Keepers get doctrinally fuzzy and syncretistic. The movement's rallies are indeed open to all, and one of its famed Seven Promises calls on men to reach beyond "denominational barriers" on behalf of biblical unity. Some in the movement have downplayed denominational differences as matters of tradition and style. A large PK pastors' gathering in 1996 offered Holy Communion to all as a demonstration of unity.
This ecumenism is abhorrent to most fundamentalists. They have always taken strong issue with Catholic dogma, Mormon prophecy and Jehovah's Witnesses theology and want no part of fellowship, however brief, with such groups."
http://www.texnews.com/1998/religion/pk0725.html
Another critique here: http://www.wayoflife.org/special/spec0010.htm
Become a firefighter.
You have a point there. The only problem, if that did happen, there would be a run on Depends at any Walgreens near the media offices.
I recommend to those who haven't read Wild at Heart, to do so. If the book "speaks" to you as a man, go to the conference. (There is a women's conference as well but not based on the Wild at Heart book) It is a powerful and moving experience and could change your life. Judge things by their fruit. If the fruit stinks, it is not from God. From what I've seen in my life as well as my friends that have read the book and been to the conference, this fruit does NOT stink.
..."They are also Armenian in their view of salvation although they also try to use language to appeal to Calvinists."...
The"Lutheran critique & News article" is written by someone not at all Familiar w/ Promise Keepers, it is a ignorant view.
PK is an Evangelical Christian organization. PK would have Huge problems with the Mormon Church and Jehovah's Witnesses. Both are Cults, neither recognize Core Christian Doctrine. No one excludes members of either, all are welcome to Christ. It is THEIR "made up as you go" theology thats not welcome. As far as the Catholic Church goes, their are some issues that are not completely agreeable, BUT these issues are to be debated over, NOT to divide over.
Peace
Your experience is your own. The message obviously wasn't for you. My experience and that of others with whom I have spoken was of a powerful and life-changing message. But I have had other experiences with a book or a message similar to yours here. Others were jazzed, and I found nothing remarkable. And sometimes, it was maybe years later when I saw the significance, looking back, of something I had panned earlier.
I would suggest another book of Eldredge's -- "Waking the Dead"
I don't know any promise keepers.
Do you?
A man has to first be able to war in the Spirit against demonic forces in his household (that means himself, his wife and his kids) first. He has to fight in his work and overcome the principalities of Satan that rule his customers, boss, coworkers etc. It takes humility to God (which may not seem like humility to your wife and kids) but God will reward you and your wife will be like a fruitful vine by the sides of your house and your children like olive plants around your table. It is hard because we have to overcome our own desires, rebellion, and unbelief first. I believe it would be much easier to fight in the flesh.
I was highlighting the power of the court - lawyers to alter and undermine 'good man' (warrior) culture.
Fathers have been unjustly denied access to their chidren through the caprice of vengeful 'ex's', without any recourse to justice. It is a National Disgrace.
(sorry for being late with the reply. for some reason on this thread, I keep getting a pop-up from "msm, -or n - communities, have no idea why!, and it's slowing down my system. wonder what's up? I got ad-aware and spybot which I update regularly, and avg also....zone alarm too. I may have to go to panda, or housecall to do an online check....please accept my apologies!)
I must have missed that. Were there any confirmed reports of that? Any newpaper articles? Were any of the Old Order Amish voting? If you have any links to articles I would love to read them.
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