Girl Abducted, Killed After Seeing Meth Use, Police Say

ABC News ^ | 2.4.05

[Know your rights]

[G3:] There's trillions of dollars in lost productivity to drugs per year.

There's productivity lost to alcohol, poor diet, and staying up too late, as well ... but that doesn't make those proper subjects of government regulation.

Are you saying that you believe drugs are regulated because their use results in lost productivity?

No, but G32 seems to.

[G32]

I'm saying we shouldn't make the situation worse. Why is that so hard to understand leroy/kingisdead/onmyfeet?

[subterfuge]

"I'm very selective on everything when it comes to freedom: the government's proper role, in my opinion, is to protect life, liberty and property. 99+% of what it does today is outside those boundaries, whether it is killing innocent people,"

Hold it right there coloradan. Who are the "innocent people" the government is killing?

[Know your rights]

I'm saying we shouldn't make the situation worse.

You haven't explained why we shouldn't make it better by banning alcohol, or shown that your hypothetical worsening outweighs the known harms of the WOD.

[G32]

Can you support your claim?

[Know your rights]

What claim?

[robertpaulsen]

"No, but G32 seems to."

No, he seems only to be making the statement that the use of drugs results in lost productivity. You're the one who brought up government regulation.

Thank you again for wasting our time.

[coloradan]

Who are the "innocent people" the government is killing?

Ismael Mena, who was no-knocked in a wrong-address raid, shot dead in his bed "because he had a gun". No drugs were found, and the police informant and police officers lied on the warrant, in addition to the wrong address. This was in Denver fairly recently.

Veronica "Roni" Bowers, 35, and her 7-month-old daughter, Charity, who were missionaries flying in a light aircraft over Peru, which was presumed to be a drug smuggling flight, and was blasted out of the sky by Peruvian military aircraft. The wreckage was then strafed, under the watchful eye of US government assets flying alongside, and providing the intelligence about it being a drug operation in the first place.

Donald Scott, who owned land adjacent to a public park that some authorities wanted to add to the park. Drug cops in a helicopter claimed to identify a pot growing operation, and raided the place on that information. Donald was shot dead as he came downstairs, armed, to see what the commotion was. No drugs were found. The wife lost the property due to the legal bills fighting the police department after the murder of her husband.

Anthony Sepulveda was an 11 year old boy, who was lying face down with a shotgun to his back, complying with the instructions of a SWAT officer participating in a raid on the house. The shotgun "accidentally" went off, and Anthony was killed. No drugs were found at the address, and it was later determined that they were at the wrong address. I think this was Merced, CA.

80 Branch Davidians were murdered by the US government in Waco, TX, including many innocent children. Allegedly, there were illegal machine guns at the property, and there was allegedly a meth lab, as well, which provided the drug war nexus to bring in military helicopters and Delta Force troops. (The feds later admitted that there was no drug lab there.)

Vicki Weaver was shot dead by FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi, who was following an illegal order to "shoot on sight". Horiuchi, who has bragged could shoot a dime at 200 yards, every time, "missed" his target and shot through the door that Vickki was standing behind. The FBI was sharply criticized for it's role in the Ruby Ridge disaster, though no one was fired or spent a day in jail for this murder. In fact, Horiuchi was promoted and served as a sniper team leader at Waco, TX.

Now, where were we?

[subterfuge]

Alright there c. I'm in agreement with your pov. Just wanted a little clarification. I'm a pretty active FReeper so I'm familiar with all of those cases you brought up. I'm sensitve about people that think America is killing "innocent (Iraqi) people."

I beleive many of these no-knock raids etc, are the actions of rogue, out of control LEOs that are allowed to get away with this stuff because of what/who they are. I don't beleive it is a policy of the executive branch, fwiw.

[robertpaulsen]

"Donald Scott, who owned land ... the wife lost the property due to the legal bills fighting the police department after the murder of her husband."

Oh baloney. No only did she keep the property, she was also awarded $5 million for the wrongful death of her husband.

The ranch house itself burned down later in the Malibu fire (which took many others), and if she "loses" the property, it will be because she is refusing to pay the past due real estate taxes.

"Anthony Sepulveda ... no drugs were found at the address, and it was later determined that they were at the wrong address."

It was Alberto Sepulveda in Modesto. The police were there (at the correct address) to serve a federal arrest warrant on his father for conspiracy to distribute methamphetamine, using a telephone to facilitate the manufacture or distribution of methamphetamine, and two counts of meth distribution.

Those charges were dropped under a plea agreement reached later where the father pleaded guilty to a felony marijuana charge (which carries a maximum sentence of four years in prison and a fine up to $250,000).

As to the Branch Davidians and Ruby Ridge, it just goes to show you that bad things happen to good people even when drugs are NOT involved.

Your post is cause to award to you the robertpaulsen "Black Helicopter Crowd, They're All Out To Get Us" award.

[Know your rights]

You're the one who brought up government regulation.

Wrong agin; it was brought up by sinkspur ("I trust the judgement of my fellow Americans who overwhelmingly choose to criminalize methamphetamine use") and by G32 ("What we need to do is say, if you're a drain, you go bye bye and just execute them").