Posted on 02/15/2005 9:29:20 PM PST by quidnunc
Ankara, Turkey — Several years ago I attended an exhibition in Istanbul. The theme was local art from the era of the country's last military coup (1980). But the artists seemed a lot more concerned with the injustices of global capitalism than the fate of Turkish democracy. In fact, to call the works leftist caricatures — many featured fat capitalists with Uncle Sam hats and emaciated workers — would have been an understatement. As one astute local reviewer put it (I quote from memory): "This shows that Turkish artists were willing to abase themselves voluntarily in ways that Soviet artists refused even at the height of Stalin's oppression."
That exhibition came to mind amid all the recent gnashing of teeth in the U.S. over the question of "Who lost Turkey?" Because it shows that a 50-year special relationship, between longtime NATO allies who fought Soviet expansionism together starting in Korea, has long had to weather the ideological hostility and intellectual decadence of much of Istanbul's elite. And at the 2002 election, the increasingly corrupt mainstream parties that had championed Turkish-American ties self-destructed, leaving a vacuum that was filled by the subtle yet insidious Islamism of the Justice and Development (AK) Party. It's this combination of old leftism and new Islamism — much more than any mutual pique over Turkey's refusal to side with us in the Iraq war — that explains the collapse in relations.
And what a collapse it has been. On a brief visit to Ankara earlier this month with Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith, I found a poisonous atmosphere — one in which just about every politician and media outlet (secular and religious) preaches an extreme combination of America- and Jew-hatred …
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Istanbul, Turkey – The year is 2007. After a clash with Turkish forces in northern Iraq, US troops stage a surprise attack. Reeling, Turkey turns to Russia and the European Union, who turn back the American onslaught.
This is the plot of "Metal Storm," one of the fastest- selling books in Turkish history. The book is clearly sold as fiction, but its premise has entered Turkey's public discourse in a way that sometimes seems to blur the line between fantasy and reality.
"The Foreign Ministry and General Staff are reading it keenly," Murat Yetkin, a columnist for the Turkish daily newspaper Radikal, recently wrote. "All cabinet members also have it."
Several other columnists have also written about the book, suggesting its depiction of a clash between the two NATO allies could become a reality. Serdar Turgut, the editor of Aksam, one of Turkey's largest newspapers, penned a recent column that took one of Metal Storm's premises — that members of Skull and Bones, the secret society that President Bush joined as a student at Yale, has taken control of US foreign policy — and presented it as fact.
"Powerful people, nearly all of whom are members of a secret 'sect,' are aiming to bring a radical change to the order of the world," Turgut wrote.
He further suggested that the US military is developing technology that would allow it to trigger earthquakes, something that will eventually be used against Turkey.
The book has arrived at a time when anti-American sentiments are running high in Turkey. A BBC poll taken last month found that 82 percent of Turks believe Bush's reelection made the world a more dangerous place, the highest figure in any country surveyed. During her recent visit, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expressed concern about the issue to Turkish officials.
Meanwhile, there is increasing tension between Ankara and Washington. Turkey is frustrated with what it claims is US failure to take military action against the separatists of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), who are holed up in the mountains of northern Iraq. The country is also concerned about events in the oil-rich Iraqi city of Kirkuk, where the Turks say Iraqi Kurds are staging a power grab as a prelude to the creation of an independent Kurdish state, something it views as a serious threat.
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(Yigal Schleifer in The Christian Science Monitor, February 15, 2005)
To Read This Article Click Here
No small achievement, that.
Sounds like Turkey will fit in nicely with certain segments of the EU.
The Cold War is over - what made the glue of such alliances - fear of the USSR - no longer exists - get used to it.
The Socialists (Leftists) in the USA are aligned with Islam. And it is a very DANGEROUS SICK, TWISTED Marxist alignment that is going to do great damage -- heads up everyone.
Last I looked both the Left and Right was aligned with Islamists during the Cold War.
"The Cold War is over - what made the glue of such alliances - fear of the USSR - no longer exists - get used to it."
Eggsackly. Turkey screwed us out of using the 4th ID as planned, which contributed to the effectiveness of the establishment of the Baathist insurgency. Had they been deployed quickly from the north as planned, instead of having to go aroung Robin Hood's barn to come in from the South, the immediate effect on the war and its extension would have been dramatic.
We owe Turkey nothing, and Turkey will soon realize it has little that we want. As it slides back into islamism, it will become a problem mainly for the euro's not us.
What shocked me was not that Turkey said no but that Washington assumed the Turks would say yes - after they were paid off billions in bribes that Wolfowitz promised the Turks.
I am sorry to say this but if the State Dept/Pentagon were caught surprised by Turkey's rejection then that does not bode well for the ability of those that advise Bush.
The previous government was much more friendly to US interests.
Turkey is ruled by the Turkish General Staff. The politicians - no matter what party is elected - serve the military and act as a cover.
"We owe Turkey nothing, and Turkey will soon realize it has little that we want."
Turkey? Turkey who? Where's Turkey? /sarcasm
You are right Turkey HAD a strong ally in the United States, but now I can see no reason to go out of our way in this relationship.
Holtz
JeffersonRepublic.com
If only that were true (they were in favor of helping us out in Iraq to get more favors). Unfortunately, they've lost control to the islamowhackos who have reduced the military's power to get on the good side of the EU.
About "Metal Storm" you've got to be kidding me, an alliance of the EU and Russia beat us? They can't defend themselves, much less defend another country. Honestly, Turkey would probably do just as well fighting on its own. They probably wouldn't be a cakewalk either.
Excellent article! It's illuminating how paranoia feeds on itself and metastasizes throughout society.
I remember when Turkey was a strong ally of ours. It's a shame to see it destroy itself.
PING
They've already achieved it. And it could so easily have been otherwise. Had they supported the U.S. effort in Iraq they would now share Great Britain's position - respect, credibility, clout, and a commanding force throughout the Middle East. Instead they've opted to lick the EU's boots, boots that may well end up kicking them in the face. It was a stupid decision and a betrayal of a proud people.
The reports were that the French informed Turkey that France would block Turkey's entry into the EU if Turkey allowed us to send the 4th MI Division across Turkish territory to attcak Iraq from the north.
We need to turn up the support we give to Armenia and Greece and start beating the drum for an independent Kurdistan. That will send them a message.
At the risk of getting flamed, I have to say I also feel sorry for the many conservative Turks (and at least a few of them are/were Freepers) who have to put up with the insults from both sides now.
Turkey has trended away from Ataturk's vision in recent years, but at all is lost.
Turkey is in denial about its genocidal past.
You are incorrect - Great Britain's position does not share a position of respect, credibility, clout, nor does it have a commanding force throughout the Middle East. The UK went along with America because it is standard UK policy to serve as America's closest ally - no matter what - America drives off a bridge- the UK will do so as well. Has been this way ever since America humiliated the British during the Suez Canal war.
That is incorrect - fear of Kurdistan and not failure to be invited into the EU was the reason.
Turkey was a hell hole under Attaturk - all he did was cloth them like Europeans but they Turkey still was the hell hole of Europe - the meat grinder of Christianity.
"The Socialists (Leftists) in the USA are aligned with Islam. And it is a very DANGEROUS SICK, TWISTED Marxist alignment that is going to do great damage -- heads up everyone."
This pretty much sums up David Horowitz's new book, "Holy War". The Left is loyal only to the revolution which is destruction of western culture.
This pretty much sums up David Horowitz's new book, "Holy War". The Left is loyal only to the revolution which is destruction of western culture.
======
Yes, they are a bunch of sick, dangerous freaks.
All that I have heard about the Kurds seems to be good.
They seem reasonable, so why is everyone in the ME afraid
that they might get some power?
Because the Kurds would take away huge chunks of land if they gained independence from Iraq, Turkey, Iran and even Syria.
Thanks for the ping Jan.
Which country is this guy talking about? Its definitely not not Turkey since I live there.
You mean a group of poorly educated, extremely gullable people whose so-called leaders are drug smuggling tribesmen in suits which have never ever formed a state? You hear good things about them because the US needs them to keep its foothold in Iraq.
What a lie. The US supported the AKP and assisted it in every way it possibly could before the elections so that it would win and come to power.
What's so special about a conspiracy novel being popular in Turkey. Remember The Da Vinci Code? All that stuff (e.g. that members of Skull and Bones, the secret society that President Bush joined as a student at Yale, has taken control of US foreign policy — Illuminati stuff; He further suggested that the US military is developing technology that would allow it to trigger earthquakes, something that will eventually be used against Turkey - HAARP related stuff) can be found in any conspiracy theory book or website in the US.
The Christian Science Monitor is one of the last sources to refer to when reading about Turkey.
I will have to take your word on that, you are closer to the situation than I am.
I am Turkish if you aren't how can you know better than me?We are warrior people and army is always important for us.But you are that uneducated or walking around with your horse glasses to say Turkey is ruled by General Staff and military does everything else.Do you really believe that with the 70 million population of Turkey is ruled by army?Dear friends especially now a days really we have some question marks about United States.Because who is turning back to who?Turkey to Usa or Usa to Turkey?What is Bush's main mission?Sorting out terrorism.What are they doing for to sort out PKK in Northern Iraq?Nothing.Classical American Politician promises (not to keep for).Usa is an allied country of Turkey for Turkish people but they don't act like an allied country.Here is two sides.But with your direct logics you just want to see one side.Which is Turkey doesn't like Usa.I think in different way.Usa doesn't like Turkey.You have to question this as well.Suddenly it appears like we started to hate Usa.I am so sorry in this but it is totally opposite.Please do not dream about anything else.We are strong and we invite Greece or Armenia to here for fighting.It will be necesarry we will walk to the Northern Iraq as well.Independent kurdistan is like finding bear in the turtle (impossible). I am so sorry for the long answer because I am Turk and I prode of being Turk in this world.Some people in this forum they attacked without thinking.We are really very strong country and we have saying dogs bark but camels walk.We keep walking.You just bark.We can sort out anything else by the power of Allah love in our hearts.
And this is the "jewel" of the Mohammedan world.
Yes you are right it was a shame for democracy but in that times I was 8 years old and now I am 33. But why it happened do you know this?No. Then first you check yourself on the mirror and than talk about me.
It was less than 5 years or so ago that the Turkish General staf used its influence to remove - I forgot was he a Prime Minister or President? of Turkey because he was too Islamist. Since then the Turkish military has said it won't do that anymore (I am sure many other officers don't like it but they seem a minority now).
Destro let me ask you one more time.Are you Turkish?No. Do you know the reality or talking without searching and believing to the Journalists like pollack? Yes . I really want to learn your nationality!!!Name of the prime minister was Erbakan and present prime minister Erdogan was in his fraction.My wife is English and we are living in modern Turkey which you will never want to accept (according to you Turkey must be very Islamic country worse than Iran.
Relax. Yes Turkey is modernizing but you can't deny the recent and very unpleasant past.
Unfortunately most articles I've been reading recently either pro-Bush or agains Bush. Being a Turk living in US I can tell you that either sides are keep misunderstanding each other and so far no one managed to stop this. I can tell you the fact that US's foreign policy is not popular neither in Europe nor in Asia and even UK Prime minister is having hard times explaning why they're still supporting US's policies. Hence Turkey is geographically located at the intersection point of East and West cultures there are always different views and opinions about US's policy. Let me give you quick historical facts about things written in article :
- Islamic party not approving and helping US in Iraq War : AK party representatives in Turkish parliament voter for support for Iraq war. Turkish parliament rejected because of other parties not because of Islamic AK party. Results were so close even CNN first announced that Turkey's support for Iraq war, then corrected it.
- America's help to Turkey : Yes US helps Turkey. What about the fact that Turkey helped US in first Gulf War, helped US in cold war by having bases in Turkey with nukes in them? Time to time the beneficiary is changing but both parties are in a mutual relationship and this was and is still beneficiary to both parties.
- Armenian so called genocide : Most of the Armenian claims are talking about people being exiled from their villages and died because of winter. Turkey was being attacked from 4 corners and even lost thousands of her own soldiers during winter, how could they protected Armenians? Turkish armies lost over 80.000 soldiers just because of harsh winter conditions during first world war. Why they're exiled? Answer is easy hidden in these words : 1st and 2nd WW's Italians, Japs, Germans, Hooever Dam concentration camps
- Jews and Turks : Before US was founded, Jews were under Turk's protection for 500 years. Check your history books for the expulsion of the Jews from Spain. Jewish and Turkish cultures are very similar to each other (not like Arabs & Jews). Turks have very close ties with Jews but not approving Israel and their acts on Palestenians. You can like people but you don't need to approve everything they do.
- Press in Turkey : I agree with what author says. Press, like in US, is publishing politically risky news then any other news. I believe in US it is also same.
What now? Common sense. Just reading news and articles shouldn't shape people's opinions. Everyone should make a reality check and double check with other experiences. I believe people in Turkey and US should read more and think more before judging each other about today's events.
Same Turkey different name...Lies lies and damned lies...what Musulmen do best.
Dear Americans.
As an (ethnical) Turk in Scandinavia I believe I have the ability to see things a bit different than you or turks in Turkey.
The US-Turkey alliance is not, as far as I see it, "very strained". In the media, things are as allways "blown up" - and this is primarily due to the wat the media works. But it is also a fact that the alliance is a "bit strained".
Now... as for the reasons behind the "strains", I believe you must search within yourselves.
A) The turkish people does not "hate the US" - it just has some problems with the current administration. I for one love the US - but I really dont love Mr. Bush :-)
B) The current administration, is run by NeoCons.
C) NeoCons like Wolfowitz, are students of Leo Strauss
D) According to Strauss, THE NOBLE LIE that Plato told about was a necessity... So as you own congressman Ron Paul said : "We've been Neo-Conned"... The whole Iraq build-up in the medias with WMD was a pure "NOBLE LIE". The Next Lie will be Iran and Syria - and perhaps even "Turkey is our enemy and not our friend". Some muslims are definately liers... but so are some americans. That doesnt make EVERY muslim bad, or EVERY conservative bad. Oh... PLEASE stop calling turks for "muslims"... turks are turks... and some (a majority) are muslims in a very liberal way.
E) Jews and Turks (especially Anatolian turks) are genetically much much closer to each other than e.g. arabs and jews, or even Sephardim Jewry with Ashkenazim Jewry. Go check www.khazaria.com if you dont believe me! Khazar turks chose to be jews in year 600. They mixed with Israelites fleeing Constantinople. Then they went west 300 years later. Turks have nothing against jews (on the contrary - I myself have numerous friends of jewish origin). The reason that turkish media focuses on Mr. Douglass Feith's ethnic origin, is that every move he makes, just as Mr. Wolfowitz, is serving Israeli interests - AND NOT NECESSARILY U.S. interests! Critisizing those two persons IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM and it sure as hell isnt Anti Americanism. Jews and turks have done well over centuries. In 1492, 150.000 jews fled persecution in Spain, and the only country accepting them was the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Suleyman (Solomon) the II. So turks are not anti semitic. They are the closest to semites ethnically AND mentally.
F) Who said Wolfowitz wants democracy? His comment after the turkish parliament didnt vote in favour of the US using Turkey as a entrance point was that, HE WAS DISSAPOINTED BY THE GENERALS not doing any more to put pressure on the turkish government. Interesting! Very Interesting! Also... didnt Wolfowitz say "It wasnt really about WMD" when questioned about why there wasnt found any WMD in Iraq? Another proof of Wolfowitz dubious scheme and the NOBLE LIE in Straussian philosophy.
G) Mr. Pollock doesnt seem to get it : In a FREE world, the PRESS is FREE and not under governtment control. But since the NEO-CONS want to CONTROL the press (like Robert Murdochs Fox Network), one must question the sincererity of Mr. Pollocks article - and even if he himself is not on the Pentagon Pay Roll. According to Leo Strauss, media's had to be used and controlled by the Elite. So... if Mr. Pollock thinks like Wolfowitz he's right... But in Europe and Turkey, the PRESS is NOT controlled nor intimidated by the government. Nor do we (like this White House Administration) reveal names of covert agents to the press just because they have another opinion.
H) Turkey is WITH the US against terror. Turkey has soldiers in Afghanistan, trains Iraqi troops, Palestinian police officers, holds naval excersices with Israel - and has a close tie with Israel. Turkey was the 5th country to recognize Israel - and the first Muslim contry to do so. Turkey has battled PKK for 20 years - we have lost 40.000 lives. WHY THEN is it that the US in Northern Iraq DOES NOT act against 5.000 PKK guerillas ? Or let Turkey do it?
I) Since Gulf War I, Turkey has lost an annual USD 8 billion in Trade with Iraq - just to uphold the UN resolutions. Turkey was promised help. It never came!
In the meantime, turkey has lost in total 100 bn USD.
J) The current US administration supports turkish entry into the EU. Really ? Or do they just want to water out the Franco-German alliance? I for one have serious doubts.
K) 350.000 Israelis visit Turkey every year. Many Americans come to Turkey every year. All will tell you about the warmth about the people. As I said: Turks have problems with the CURRENT administration.
L) The Abu-Graibh and Guantanamo events can only be negative events.
M) Before americans ask "What can Turks do to improve relations with US" they also need to simultaneously ask "What can we do to improve relations with Turks". Alliances are forged with friendship, compassion - not by alienating your ally by imposing an "übermensch" image in the brains of Anatolian farmers. If you do this, what can the turkish government do to "tame the press" ?
N) Oh... byt the way... Some of you guys in here are just pure rascist. The way you guys speack of muslims resembles the very way Nazis talked about jews. So... take it easy folks... Not all muslims are the same - just like France isnt exactly the same as the US although both countries are Christian.
O) True friends tell you when you are on a wrong path. Then Turkey, France and Germany tell you this, you should listen instead of closing your ears and get mad at us.
Finally, one may ask if the US-Turkey alliance will exist five years down the road. My clear answer is YES! Turkey and the US have not allways agreed 100% on every matter, and our alliance have been strained before (e.g. in 1974), but it is a strategical alliance - and will last.
K.Z.
Another Turk with a different name...you guys don't get it.
Listen up Turks, it's only a matter of time before the the Turkish parastate collapses.
Get what ?
It is not a problem for us, collapsing states. There are 15 collapsed states in our history. We can build a new one in six days. So, dont bother.
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