Posted on 02/15/2005 9:29:20 PM PST by quidnunc
It was less than 5 years or so ago that the Turkish General staf used its influence to remove - I forgot was he a Prime Minister or President? of Turkey because he was too Islamist. Since then the Turkish military has said it won't do that anymore (I am sure many other officers don't like it but they seem a minority now).
Destro let me ask you one more time.Are you Turkish?No. Do you know the reality or talking without searching and believing to the Journalists like pollack? Yes . I really want to learn your nationality!!!Name of the prime minister was Erbakan and present prime minister Erdogan was in his fraction.My wife is English and we are living in modern Turkey which you will never want to accept (according to you Turkey must be very Islamic country worse than Iran.
Relax. Yes Turkey is modernizing but you can't deny the recent and very unpleasant past.
Unfortunately most articles I've been reading recently either pro-Bush or agains Bush. Being a Turk living in US I can tell you that either sides are keep misunderstanding each other and so far no one managed to stop this. I can tell you the fact that US's foreign policy is not popular neither in Europe nor in Asia and even UK Prime minister is having hard times explaning why they're still supporting US's policies. Hence Turkey is geographically located at the intersection point of East and West cultures there are always different views and opinions about US's policy. Let me give you quick historical facts about things written in article :
- Islamic party not approving and helping US in Iraq War : AK party representatives in Turkish parliament voter for support for Iraq war. Turkish parliament rejected because of other parties not because of Islamic AK party. Results were so close even CNN first announced that Turkey's support for Iraq war, then corrected it.
- America's help to Turkey : Yes US helps Turkey. What about the fact that Turkey helped US in first Gulf War, helped US in cold war by having bases in Turkey with nukes in them? Time to time the beneficiary is changing but both parties are in a mutual relationship and this was and is still beneficiary to both parties.
- Armenian so called genocide : Most of the Armenian claims are talking about people being exiled from their villages and died because of winter. Turkey was being attacked from 4 corners and even lost thousands of her own soldiers during winter, how could they protected Armenians? Turkish armies lost over 80.000 soldiers just because of harsh winter conditions during first world war. Why they're exiled? Answer is easy hidden in these words : 1st and 2nd WW's Italians, Japs, Germans, Hooever Dam concentration camps
- Jews and Turks : Before US was founded, Jews were under Turk's protection for 500 years. Check your history books for the expulsion of the Jews from Spain. Jewish and Turkish cultures are very similar to each other (not like Arabs & Jews). Turks have very close ties with Jews but not approving Israel and their acts on Palestenians. You can like people but you don't need to approve everything they do.
- Press in Turkey : I agree with what author says. Press, like in US, is publishing politically risky news then any other news. I believe in US it is also same.
What now? Common sense. Just reading news and articles shouldn't shape people's opinions. Everyone should make a reality check and double check with other experiences. I believe people in Turkey and US should read more and think more before judging each other about today's events.
Same Turkey different name...Lies lies and damned lies...what Musulmen do best.
Dear Americans.
As an (ethnical) Turk in Scandinavia I believe I have the ability to see things a bit different than you or turks in Turkey.
The US-Turkey alliance is not, as far as I see it, "very strained". In the media, things are as allways "blown up" - and this is primarily due to the wat the media works. But it is also a fact that the alliance is a "bit strained".
Now... as for the reasons behind the "strains", I believe you must search within yourselves.
A) The turkish people does not "hate the US" - it just has some problems with the current administration. I for one love the US - but I really dont love Mr. Bush :-)
B) The current administration, is run by NeoCons.
C) NeoCons like Wolfowitz, are students of Leo Strauss
D) According to Strauss, THE NOBLE LIE that Plato told about was a necessity... So as you own congressman Ron Paul said : "We've been Neo-Conned"... The whole Iraq build-up in the medias with WMD was a pure "NOBLE LIE". The Next Lie will be Iran and Syria - and perhaps even "Turkey is our enemy and not our friend". Some muslims are definately liers... but so are some americans. That doesnt make EVERY muslim bad, or EVERY conservative bad. Oh... PLEASE stop calling turks for "muslims"... turks are turks... and some (a majority) are muslims in a very liberal way.
E) Jews and Turks (especially Anatolian turks) are genetically much much closer to each other than e.g. arabs and jews, or even Sephardim Jewry with Ashkenazim Jewry. Go check www.khazaria.com if you dont believe me! Khazar turks chose to be jews in year 600. They mixed with Israelites fleeing Constantinople. Then they went west 300 years later. Turks have nothing against jews (on the contrary - I myself have numerous friends of jewish origin). The reason that turkish media focuses on Mr. Douglass Feith's ethnic origin, is that every move he makes, just as Mr. Wolfowitz, is serving Israeli interests - AND NOT NECESSARILY U.S. interests! Critisizing those two persons IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM and it sure as hell isnt Anti Americanism. Jews and turks have done well over centuries. In 1492, 150.000 jews fled persecution in Spain, and the only country accepting them was the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Suleyman (Solomon) the II. So turks are not anti semitic. They are the closest to semites ethnically AND mentally.
F) Who said Wolfowitz wants democracy? His comment after the turkish parliament didnt vote in favour of the US using Turkey as a entrance point was that, HE WAS DISSAPOINTED BY THE GENERALS not doing any more to put pressure on the turkish government. Interesting! Very Interesting! Also... didnt Wolfowitz say "It wasnt really about WMD" when questioned about why there wasnt found any WMD in Iraq? Another proof of Wolfowitz dubious scheme and the NOBLE LIE in Straussian philosophy.
G) Mr. Pollock doesnt seem to get it : In a FREE world, the PRESS is FREE and not under governtment control. But since the NEO-CONS want to CONTROL the press (like Robert Murdochs Fox Network), one must question the sincererity of Mr. Pollocks article - and even if he himself is not on the Pentagon Pay Roll. According to Leo Strauss, media's had to be used and controlled by the Elite. So... if Mr. Pollock thinks like Wolfowitz he's right... But in Europe and Turkey, the PRESS is NOT controlled nor intimidated by the government. Nor do we (like this White House Administration) reveal names of covert agents to the press just because they have another opinion.
H) Turkey is WITH the US against terror. Turkey has soldiers in Afghanistan, trains Iraqi troops, Palestinian police officers, holds naval excersices with Israel - and has a close tie with Israel. Turkey was the 5th country to recognize Israel - and the first Muslim contry to do so. Turkey has battled PKK for 20 years - we have lost 40.000 lives. WHY THEN is it that the US in Northern Iraq DOES NOT act against 5.000 PKK guerillas ? Or let Turkey do it?
I) Since Gulf War I, Turkey has lost an annual USD 8 billion in Trade with Iraq - just to uphold the UN resolutions. Turkey was promised help. It never came!
In the meantime, turkey has lost in total 100 bn USD.
J) The current US administration supports turkish entry into the EU. Really ? Or do they just want to water out the Franco-German alliance? I for one have serious doubts.
K) 350.000 Israelis visit Turkey every year. Many Americans come to Turkey every year. All will tell you about the warmth about the people. As I said: Turks have problems with the CURRENT administration.
L) The Abu-Graibh and Guantanamo events can only be negative events.
M) Before americans ask "What can Turks do to improve relations with US" they also need to simultaneously ask "What can we do to improve relations with Turks". Alliances are forged with friendship, compassion - not by alienating your ally by imposing an "übermensch" image in the brains of Anatolian farmers. If you do this, what can the turkish government do to "tame the press" ?
N) Oh... byt the way... Some of you guys in here are just pure rascist. The way you guys speack of muslims resembles the very way Nazis talked about jews. So... take it easy folks... Not all muslims are the same - just like France isnt exactly the same as the US although both countries are Christian.
O) True friends tell you when you are on a wrong path. Then Turkey, France and Germany tell you this, you should listen instead of closing your ears and get mad at us.
Finally, one may ask if the US-Turkey alliance will exist five years down the road. My clear answer is YES! Turkey and the US have not allways agreed 100% on every matter, and our alliance have been strained before (e.g. in 1974), but it is a strategical alliance - and will last.
K.Z.
Another Turk with a different name...you guys don't get it.
Listen up Turks, it's only a matter of time before the the Turkish parastate collapses.
Get what ?
It is not a problem for us, collapsing states. There are 15 collapsed states in our history. We can build a new one in six days. So, dont bother.
Elenil :
What is it I didnt get - I must have an IQ below your shoesize since you very rascistically write "Another Turk with a different name... you guys don't get it." All you are doing in here is intimidating everybody with another "view" than yours with rascist comments!
Instead of writing like that, try to look at my points A) to N) and comment those instead...
Dream on!
Besides Turkey did not open the northern front in the 2nd Gulf War because the US refused its offer to join the invasion with 80,000 troops.
Mental defectives don't discuss and don't reflect judging from the pro Turkey postings...they just sign up with different monikers and keep on spewing the SOS...the SOS...
LOL...Pass this on to the other facets of your personality...
according to evolutionary psychology, you may be the mentally defective one, as you mentioned it for your own needs, mental issues are not the primary case here. lol. You are somehow little problematic and this is also not problem for Turks.
Your mind and your behaviors are out of my circle of concern.
Understanding Turkey fundemantals is out of your brains capacity. Try to learn some eastern language for improving your thoughts. Have a nice day, Elenil21.
Try these names next time you sign up - Turk3 or maybe Anotherturko or how about pashaboy.
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