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To: Campion; MineralMan
You mean by hearing or seeing their parents? Big whoop, they certainly weren't taught to act like sluts at 13.

As MineralMan pointed out in an earlier post, the so-called shotgun wedding used to be a pretty common event before the invention of reliable birth control. Girls weren't really more virtuous back in the old days due to some greater moral code, they were just more likely to get knocked up and married off.

116 posted on 02/16/2005 9:34:10 AM PST by Modernman ("Normally, I don't listen to women, or doctors." - Captain Hero)
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To: Modernman

In fact, IIRC the teen pregnancy rate is lower now than it was in the 1950's- not just among late teens (18-19) but among younger teens.


119 posted on 02/16/2005 9:36:37 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: Modernman
Girls weren't really more virtuous back in the old days due to some greater moral code, they were just more likely to get knocked up and married off.

You're just plain dreaming. I lived there, I remember it, they were one heck of a lot more virtuous when I was dating just twenty years ago than they are -- by your own description of your own activities -- today.

If I had suggested what you brag about doing in college to 98% of the women I dated in the early 80's, they would have (a) slapped me hard; and (b) dropped me immediately; and (c) told their girlfriends I was bad news.

You libertine guys can go on chanting your mantra of "it was just as bad in the old days" if it makes you feel better, but that's all it is -- a myth you make up to justify your own behavior.

Did girls get knocked up? Sure they did. They weren't considered to be role models, they were looked down upon. You know, I honestly don't remember any high schools in the 1960's or 1970's with day care facilities for the girls' illegitimate kids, like some of them have now.

126 posted on 02/16/2005 9:41:12 AM PST by Campion
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To: Modernman
As MineralMan pointed out in an earlier post, the so-called shotgun wedding used to be a pretty common event before the invention of reliable birth control. Girls weren't really more virtuous back in the old days due to some greater moral code, they were just more likely to get knocked up and married off.

Ah, the ol' liberal, "Things have always been just like they are now so you can't blame us for making things worse," argument. Sorry, but I'm just old enough to know that while things weren't perfect, they were once better in many regards. And I don't believe that culture and laws have little or no impact on human behavior.

And I also think people are trying to have it both ways. That same lack of privacy that was being touted earlier in the thread by some posters (which also included double-dating, chaperones, and "courting") combined with a lack of birth control created a situation very different from what we have today. The lack of birth control combined with a lack of privacy (not only from tight living quarters but also from the fact that people used to know and talk to their neighbors) provided substantial incentive for more virtuous behavior and there is plenty of reason to believe it was more virtuous, though obviously not 100% virtuous.

You should also note, for example, that the reason why a lot of British women had sex with a lot of American GIs during WW2 (leading to some shotgun weddings and other problems) was that in the United States, it was the woman's responsibility to say no and in the UK, it was the man's responsibility and, yes, that had an impact on how much premarital sex was going on. What happens when neither party is culturally responsible for saying no? That's what we have no and it does not have no impact on human behavior.

Yes, shotgun weddings always happened, even among the Puritans based on marriage and birth records. That still doesn't mean that Puritan women hooked up with dozens of guys before they got married, nor does it mean that premarital sex, overall, was as common as it is today. And what a lot of people seem to fail to realize is that if you want people to achieve a certain level of decorum, the way to do that is not to set your expectations at that level of decorum but to set it much higher. Nobody thinks that a more modest and prudish society will stop premarital sex but there are plenty of reasons to think that it will improve things.

140 posted on 02/16/2005 9:53:34 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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