Microsoft Blocking Wine Users From Downloads Site (More poor business parctices by gates)

wine-devel Mailing list ^ | 2005-02-17 | Ivan Leo

[amigatec]

Urban legends. Do you have any idea how much backward compatibility testing was done in the early 1990s?

Really???

Read this article.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geoffch/editorial/aard/index.html

[FrankR]

Well, I see your point...

I'm not a windows programmer, but I have used Linux quite a bit, and frankly - I think it sucks.

Usually, anything made to do two different things, is only half as good at each one as the original.

If I remember the previous arguments about MS being a monopoly, it was something to do with pre-loading new computers with Windows, and/or not allowing programmers to get into the proprietary code. Hummm, I think I'll sue Coca Cola if they don't send me their secret formula.

That is to say - except for a apparent seething hatred for Bill Gates, why would someone get Linux, and then try to "emulate" Windows with WINE, and then "buy" Word and Excel and try to download updates for them, from Linux, using WINE? Why not just buy Windows to start with? Sounds like someone trying to make a bicycle out of a unicycle...all the wheels ain't there.

Besides, the Linux I worked with had its own word processor and spreadsheet...so why not just use those? That is, unless Microsofts products may be better?

I still don't get the problem, other than BillGatesOPhobia.

[amigatec]

I hear that NG cars run cleaner and i wanna do my part plus i hate the evil oil industry. Wait a sec...my ford won't let me put natural gas in it.

That's funny I used to run an old '76 GMC pickup on Propane, OR gasoline. I had controls to switch from one to the other.

There was nothing that GM did to prevent that.

[amigatec]

It's kind of like Ford saying that if you've got a Chevy in your garage, you aren't allowed to buy an F150 pickup truck.

While it would be pretty stupid of them to do that, Ford would be perfectly within their rights as a company if they did! That's the point.

Ever see a Ford truck with a GM Engine?

http://www.publiquip.com/trucks/Ford-Water-Truck-2045999021.htm

Look it up the Detroit Diesel S60 engine is made by GM.

[Knitebane]

I'm not a windows programmer, but I have used Linux quite a bit, and frankly - I think it sucks.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and no one is making you use Linux if you don't want to. And oddly enough, that's what all of the screaming is about. Microsoft is making people use Windows in order to get what they paid for with other products. (It's called bundling and it's illegal under most circumstances. It's always illegal when the company that is doing it has a monopoly in one of the products.)

If I remember the previous arguments about MS being a monopoly, it was something to do with pre-loading new computers with Windows,and/or not allowing programmers to get into the proprietary code.

No, it wasn't. It was about Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer (one product) with Microsoft Windows (another product, and one in which they have a monopoly). It had nothing to do with allowing programmers to see Microsoft's code. That was considered as one of Microsoft's punishments, but none of the companies that sued Microsoft were asking for that.

That is to say - except for a apparent seething hatred for Bill Gates, why would someone get Linux, and then try to "emulate" Windows with WINE, and then "buy" Word and Excel and try to download updates for them, from Linux, using WINE?

Because some companies require Word or Excel, some websites require IE and some dunderheads dump company data into Access or program in VB. To use any of these you have to use Microsoft's products.

Why not just buy Windows to start with? Sounds like someone trying to make a bicycle out of a unicycle...all the wheels ain't there.

Why should anyone HAVE to buy Windows in order just to use a program?

Besides, the Linux I worked with had its own word processor and spreadsheet...so why not just use those?

Because some people have hundreds of hours invested in Word or Excel macros? Some companies require Word? Does it matter why?

That is, unless Microsofts products may be better?

Or perhaps because they already own a copy of Word or Excel, bought and paid for and they'd like to use it? And now Microsoft won't let them use all of the features that they paid for?

[amigatec]

Because Chevys are the most popular, Ford decides to make its transmissions compatible with Chevy's. They also make their vehicles available for free. Chevy has an excellent warranty on the transmissions for their vehicles. In fact, they'll give their customers a new one as they improve the design and discover errors. Ford customers start showing up at the Chevy dealer and getting free replacement transmissions at Chevy's cost. Chevy doesn't want to give Ford customers free transmissions any more, so they tell the dealer not to install them in Ford vehicles any more.

Ever see a Ford with a GM Transmission??

http://www.thetruckshop.net/detail.php?id=A54950

Allison Automatics are build by GM.

I wish when you guys use the automotive industry is an example you at least do your homework.

[amigatec]

It's kind of like Ford saying that if you've got a Chevy in your garage, you aren't allowed to obtain replacement parts for your F150 pickup truck."

I'll go one better, I was a Truck mechanic for 25 years. When I needed a rebuilt Chevy Engine I used to go to the Ford Dealer and get it from them!!!

They had a FORD authorized re-builder that rebuilt not only Ford motors but Chevy as well.

[mikegi]

Really??? Read this article. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geoffch/editorial/aard/index.html

Yes really. Why don't you read about the AARD code from the guy who wrote it:

AARDvarks in your code

Dry, technical discussion of file tables, pointers, etc. Certainly not as fun as spewing "Evil Empire" and "Linux Rox".

[amigatec]

Now for the rest of the story...

http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/final4.html

[N3WBI3]

But now comes MicroSoft - the company everyone loves to hate - and they can't control their business?

Should ford refuse to service my cars transmission because I chaged to a different stero system?

and I admit I might be displaying a little lack of window's savvy, but why...would a person using WINE, if it's a program made to EMULATE windows through Linux, want to download Microsoft files anyway? Just asking.

Because if a patch fixes a bug in office one might want that fixed even if they are running it through wine.

[mikegi]

From your link:

when in fact Microsoft knew that DR DOS was, or with minor adjustments could be, compatible with Windows

So, Novell's own case says that DRDOS had compatibility problems. You apparently believe that Msft should help a competitor.

Their case then goes on to criticize Msft for essentially using DOS as a boot loader for Win95. People wanted to get away from DOS. Performance was much better because DOS wasn't used, you know the 32bit protected file system drivers, etc...

Good grief. Novell mistakenly thought they could use DRDOS as a weapon against Msft. They were wrong on that and many other things. You do realize that all these companies were competitors to Msft and wanted to squash Msft, right? That competition made Msft come out with better products. Isn't that the goal of capitalism?

I sometimes wonder why people, like you, who bring up old dead horses like DRDOS don't complain about Windows Explorer. I mean, it is a file system shell and there were other file system shells before it. Didn't Msft crush those other shell companies, too? Shouldn't that be ruled anti-competitive? Why stop there ... GDI is just a DLL that renders graphics. There were other graphics renderers out there and GDI killed most of them. Should Msft have been sued for that? That's not to mention file system drivers, serial port drivers, etc.

[amigatec]

And if you take the time to read the link that I posted you will understand why MS settled out of court, they knew they couldn't win this one.

[FrankR]

"Should ford refuse to service my cars transmission because I chaged [sic] to a different stero system? "

Did Microsoft refuse to allow you to download update "transmissions" because you had a different "sound card"?

So, going along that line of thinking, then Ford should be sued because the fenders for their vehicles will not fit all other makes of cars. I mean if Ford fenders only fit Ford vehicles...(sounds like a monopoly to me). The nerve of Ford "bundling" their vehicles with fenders that won't fit every car on the road.

Sure, there will be someone out there trying to put a Ford fender on a Ugo, but I doubt Ford will honor the warranty.

I'm sorry, you made some good arguments, I suppose, but it is not Microsofts responsibility to make it so that every 3rd world operating system has to be compatible to theirs. Let the buyer beware...Windows ain't exactly a secret anymore.

If you company uses WINE, or Linux, or whatever, just tell your customers that you can't communicate with their MS products because your company it to cheap to get in step with the rest of the business world. If you company wants to do business with the PC/Windows world, they'll just have to change things to make it possible...otherwise, he's driving a Ugo with a Ford fender.

I'll end with this, and because these "gates-o-phobic" threads can go forever, so I won't reply anymore, as there is no more to say:

If I was Bill Gates, and I had completely revolutionized the entire world of computers with MY operating systems, then I would strive to provide any and all compatible software to go with it, and market it unashamedly.

[N3WBI3]

So, going along that line of thinking, then Ford should be sued because the fenders for their vehicles will not fit all other makes of cars. I mean if Ford fenders only fit Ford vehicles...(sounds like a monopoly to me). The nerve of Ford "bundling" their vehicles with fenders that won't fit every car on the road.

No ford should be sued if they intentionally find a way to break teh fender of a ford car with a GM sterio.. Were talking about office not windows...

[amigatec]

So, going along that line of thinking, then Ford should be sued because the fenders for their vehicles will not fit all other makes of cars. I mean if Ford fenders only fit Ford vehicles...(sounds like a monopoly to me). The nerve of Ford "bundling" their vehicles with fenders that won't fit every car on the road.

Again using the Automotive industry as an example is a bad idea.

I can buy fenders far a Ford and NOT buy Ford fenders, I can buy after-market fenders from a lot of different manufactures.

I can even install AC (Made by GM) Spark plugs in my Ford.

As I have already pointed out, Ford DOES buy and install GM products in their vehicles.

Ever see a Ford motor with a Rochester Spread-bore carb?

They installed those as well!!! (427 Ford with dual carbs, rare but it did happen!!)

[N3WBI3]

Ford DOES buy and install GM products in their vehicles.

And window has installed opensource components on thir system (BSD stack in 95)..

[TChris]

Microsoft is requiring people to buy MS Windows (a monopoly product) in order to use MS Office even when they've paid for MS Office.

That's a real stretch of the definition of "bundling".

I could complain that using a Linux version of OpenOffice.org requires me to install Linux. That's the nature of computer software, not bundling.

[TChris]

Ever see a Ford truck with a GM Engine? Sure. What's your point?

[TChris]

I wish when you guys use the automotive industry is an example you at least do your homework.

I wish you could comprehend the concept of a hypothetical analogy. This thread has nothing to do with Ford and Chevy. I was using them to illustrate a point, not to prove that they don't cooperate and work together sometimes. Take a deep breath and relax.

[Golden Eagle]

isn't this the time where the open-source boosters are supposed to begin spouting about how superior 'open-source' software is to anything put out by that evil corporation headed by the nincompoop, Bill Gates? One wonders why anyone with such superior software would want to run anything by Microsoft?

Good question...