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Microsoft Blocking Wine Users From Downloads Site (More poor business parctices by gates)
wine-devel Mailing list ^ | 2005-02-17 | Ivan Leo

Posted on 02/17/2005 7:32:53 AM PST by N3WBI3

As some of you may know, Microsoft is planning to totally restrict access to the Microsoft download center to all non-genuine windows users. So you would expect some check for pirated copies of windows to be involved. If you visit the download center with IE you get an activex control, but if you try with Firefox, you'll have to download a little program, that returns a code you have to copy into the download page, to get access to the download you selected. By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is...

SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config

the wine configuration key. the Windows Genuine Advantage program press release says that in the second half of 2005, all users connecting to the Microsoft download center or to windows update will have to validate their copy of windows. Interestingly if you run the validation program on wine, and the version of windows you're emulating is prior to 2000 or is windows server 20003, you get a message saying a validation code couldn't be found, because of technical difficulties or because you're running an unsupported operating system. If you set winver to win2000, you'll get a validation code that doesn't work, this may be a bug in wine, or in the validation program. A valid and working code is returned if the version is set to xp. Still, even if this is only an initial attempt, they appear to want to discriminate wine users, while this may be acceptable for operating system components/updates, this is probably a violation of anti-trust law for all other downloads. It's also the first time Microsoft acknowledges the existence of Wine.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Technical; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: convictedmonopoly; linux; lowqualitycrap; microsoft; parcticesmakesprfect; washington; windohs; windows; windulls; wine
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To: TChris
Because Chevys are the most popular, Ford decides to make its transmissions compatible with Chevy's. They also make their vehicles available for free. Chevy has an excellent warranty on the transmissions for their vehicles. In fact, they'll give their customers a new one as they improve the design and discover errors. Ford customers start showing up at the Chevy dealer and getting free replacement transmissions at Chevy's cost. Chevy doesn't want to give Ford customers free transmissions any more, so they tell the dealer not to install them in Ford vehicles any more.

That analogy is flawed. A better one would be Chevy refusing to support a recall fix on, say, the air conditioning system because the vehicle contains a Ford transmission. Still not a great analogy, but it removes the flaw in yours in that the Microsoft's support for one product is being tied to the use of a second product.

61 posted on 02/17/2005 9:08:37 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: kevkrom
I just kind of find it hard to believe that everyone missed that "flaw" in the EULA and MS hasn't been cleaned out in court yet.

although it does say on the Office box what the requirements are, and in the manual. but as my good friend pointed out earlier they aren't legal documents. I'll have to read the EULA when i get to one. For some reason I'd bet on a clause that says you have to conform to what the manual dictates or something like that.
62 posted on 02/17/2005 9:10:55 AM PST by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier then working)
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To: TChris
However, you can't throw a tantrum when a for-profit company doesn't want to give their stuff away for free to people who aren't their customers.

If the WINE users aren't using MS apps, then what the heck are they downloading from MS Update? Either the users in question have purchased a EULA for an MS app, or they're common pirates. If the latter case is true, then the behavior of MS Update is a non-issue; the pirate's claim to software is illegitimate in any case.

If the former case is true, however, and the WINE user has purchased a EULA for, say, MS PowerPoint (just as an example), and MS is deliberately discriminating against updating their app software simply because they've got WINE on their machine, then the consumer deserves a refund.

63 posted on 02/17/2005 9:11:45 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: 13foxtrot
From Office Standard 2003 EULA:

8. ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE/SERVICES. This EULA applies to updates, supplements, add-on components, or Internet-based services components, of the Software that Microsoft may provide to you or make available to you after the date you obtain your initial copy of the Software, unless they are accompanied by separate terms. Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Software. Emphasis added.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula/en.mspx

64 posted on 02/17/2005 9:20:58 AM PST by 13foxtrot
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To: 13foxtrot
but..but...that makes them evil. I hate them.

Thanks for the post. It's good to turn a article based on speculation into one of fact.
65 posted on 02/17/2005 9:24:00 AM PST by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier then working)
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To: tfecw
Read the clayton act section 13a

It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, to be a party to, or assist in, any transaction of sale, or contract to sell, which discriminates to his knowledge against competitors

66 posted on 02/17/2005 9:25:29 AM PST by N3WBI3
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To: TChris

But Microsoft purposely designed their software to FAIL to run Quarterdeck's software.


67 posted on 02/17/2005 9:30:47 AM PST by Mr. K (this space for rent)
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To: tfecw
Thanks for the post. It's good to turn a article based on speculation into one of fact.

But remember, just because a clause is in an agreement doesn't make it lawful. However, it can shift the burden to the consumer to make a showing that it is unlawful.

68 posted on 02/17/2005 9:31:20 AM PST by 13foxtrot
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To: Oberon
Bad example.

" It's kind of like Ford saying that if you've got a Chevy in your garage, you aren't allowed to obtain replacement parts for your F150 pickup truck."

69 posted on 02/17/2005 9:36:15 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Life is sexually transmitted.)
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To: kevkrom
That analogy is flawed. A better one would be Chevy refusing to support a recall fix on, say, the air conditioning system because the vehicle contains a Ford transmission. Still not a great analogy, but it removes the flaw in yours in that the Microsoft's support for one product is being tied to the use of a second product.

I agree, that's probably a better analogy. As sucky as their attitude an behavior might be, I still think MS is within their legal rights to do it.

70 posted on 02/17/2005 9:37:45 AM PST by TChris (Most people's capability for inference is severely overestimated)
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To: Oberon
If the WINE users aren't using MS apps, then what the heck are they downloading from MS Update? Either the users in question have purchased a EULA for an MS app, or they're common pirates. If the latter case is true, then the behavior of MS Update is a non-issue; the pirate's claim to software is illegitimate in any case.

If they purchased the EULA, then read post #64. MS can cut them off for any reason they deem appropriate. It sucks, but its legal, AFAICT.

71 posted on 02/17/2005 9:40:05 AM PST by TChris (Most people's capability for inference is severely overestimated)
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To: mikegi
Does it matter that Msft's java runtime was far superior to Sun's?

yes, Microsoft broke a loicense agreement with SUN, and in doing so was breaking the main useful point of java, cross platform portability of all code...

72 posted on 02/17/2005 9:43:34 AM PST by N3WBI3
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To: TChris
If they purchased the EULA, then read post #64. MS can cut them off for any reason they deem appropriate. It sucks, but its legal, AFAICT.

Well, there it is, then. MS reserves the right to keep you from accessing online updates for whatever reason they see fit.

This should represent an opportunity in the marketplace, I would think.

73 posted on 02/17/2005 9:44:31 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: tfecw

Thanks I think youre neat as well ;)


74 posted on 02/17/2005 9:45:31 AM PST by N3WBI3
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To: N3WBI3
hmm...well thats because the JVM reads the code for a specific system. If MS wrote a JVM for windows, then how would that keep java from being cross platform? Windows, linux, mac, they don't understand java code. Each one has it's own JVM which does understand java code.

I'm just pointing that out. I don't know the details of how MS broke the agreement or whatever. The way you described it is leaving out a lot of detail.
75 posted on 02/17/2005 9:48:47 AM PST by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier then working)
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To: tfecw
hmm...well thats because the JVM reads the code for a specific system. If MS wrote a JVM for windows, then how would that keep java from being cross platform? Windows, linux, mac, they don't understand java code. Each one has it's own JVM which does understand java code.

The Visual J++ microsoft released included libraries which were not part of Java, and the code generated using these functions would not run through SUN's JVM's. This was a clear violation by MS and an attempt to fragment Java.

76 posted on 02/17/2005 9:50:17 AM PST by N3WBI3
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To: N3WBI3

Thanks I think youre neat as well ;)


I missed something. Were you being sarcastic? I writen so many things and deleted so many things i've kind of lost track of what I've actually been saying :)


77 posted on 02/17/2005 9:50:39 AM PST by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier then working)
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To: N3WBI3

I love the wording of this one. Where can I download wine? How much disk space is needed? Do I need to provide my own bottles?


78 posted on 02/17/2005 9:56:01 AM PST by jimfree (Freep and Ye Shall Find)
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To: markman46

I have xp pro and changed computers. I contacted them by phone and got someone in india to authorise my copy. Funny thing is that the phone number given for my area (Seattle) had been disconnected. I used a number for Canadian users no problem.

I am running it on a 400mhz pentium II. When I dump that computer (soon), I'll have to make yet another call. They must hate people that keep moving their operating system from one computer to another.


79 posted on 02/17/2005 9:56:15 AM PST by RobRoy (They're trying to find themselves an audience. Their deductions need applause - Peter Gabriel)
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To: tfecw

In your post you pointed out that I said manuals were not legal documents, and were quite polite about it.. I was just returning the favor, sorry for any confusion..


80 posted on 02/17/2005 9:58:32 AM PST by N3WBI3
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