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Law and Borders
The Weekly Standard ^ | 2/28/2005 | Tamar Jacoby

Posted on 02/23/2005 5:15:25 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez

Douglas, Arizona
LEE MORGAN'S SMALL, spare office has the somber feel of a personal shrine. A Vietnam veteran with 30 years' experience in the immigration and customs services, Morgan does undercover and investigative work on the Arizona border, now the gateway of choice for illegal immigrants entering the United States from the south. Everything in his lair in the dusty frontier town of Douglas speaks to his patriotism and dedication: his Bronze Star, his Purple Heart, the three folded American flags--comrades' commemorative flags--and proud photos of his fondest undercover busts. Like everyone who works on the border, he has had a new assignment since 9/11. The twin fights against illegal immigration and drugs, though not forgotten, have been subordinated to a new preoccupation--terrorism. But, tough and determined though he is, Morgan is far from confident that he can hold the line.

Every day last year, the immigration service apprehended some 1,400 illegal immigrants trying to cross into Arizona. Over 12 months, along the whole southern border, the total number arrested was more than a million. Morgan has seen too much in life to be anything but candid, and although it's his job to help catch these unauthorized migrants, he criticizes the apprehensions as a waste of time and resources. "They're just poor people trying to feed their families," he shrugs. But that doesn't mean he isn't concerned--very concerned. The main issue in his eyes: the distraction the immigrant influx creates. "What if another 9/11 happens and I'm responsible?" he asks. "What if the

bastards come across here in Arizona and I don't catch them because I'm so busy chasing a busboy or a gardener that I don't have time to do my job--my real job--catching terrorists? I don't know how I'll live with myself."

Morgan's personal nightmare is one urgent reason why all Americans, no matter what their politics, should support President Bush's plan to retake control of our southern border. The White House proposal, introduced in early 2004 and allowed to drop from sight during the election year, is back on the table. The president laid out his ideas again in the State of the Union and is reportedly planning a major initiative to take the issue to the public later this spring.

Republicans are no less divided this year than last, and the White House has been working overtime to finesse those divisions. In early February it shrewdly avoided a confrontation in the House by backing a package of tough enforcement measures that many had expected would expose a rift between the president and less immigrant-friendly Republicans. Instead, the administration and its allies cast the "REAL ID Act"--the brainchild of powerful Judiciary Committee chairman James Sensenbrenner--as a first step toward the broader reform they seek, helping the measure pass by a healthy margin. But this will hardly end the discord in Republican ranks, and a major showdown is sure to come, both in Congress and, more broadly, among conservatives across the country.

The Bush plan has two key components: a guest worker program and a transitional measure that would allow illegal immigrants already here and working to earn their way onto the right side of the law and participate legally in the U.S. labor market. Conservative critics lambaste both elements, not just as bad policy, but as inherently un-conservative--out of keeping with core principles and detrimental to Republican interests. The impulse behind the challenge is understandable. Conservative criteria are different: not just security, but the rule of law, traditional values, and national cohesion--not to mention the interests of the GOP. It's also true that the president often touts his proposal in terms designed to appeal across the political spectrum. He talks about "compassion" and a desire to reward "goodhearted" workers, and sometimes this emphasis obscures the hardheaded, conservative case for his approach--a case that begins but does not end with America's economic interests. In reality, though, demonized as it has been on the right, the Bush plan meets every conceivable conservative criterion--with flying colors.THE PRESIDENT'S REPUBLICAN OPPONENTS often put their case as a rhetorical question--"What part of 'illegal' don't you understand?"--and the gibe hits home, not necessarily because of what it says about the Bush solution, but because it so accurately diagnoses what's wrong with the existing system. Our immigration system is indeed based on illegality--on a long-standing and all but deliberate mismatch between the size of our yearly quotas and the actual needs of our labor market, particularly at the lower reaches of the job ladder. This mismatch has often been convenient for employers--it provides a docile, disposable foreign labor force--and it has been the norm in agriculture off and on for nearly a hundred years. But in recent decades, new technologies have spurred demand for low-skilled workers in a wide range of other sectors as well, and the public, quite understandably, is beginning to find the hypocrisy intolerable.

As the president's critics understand, this is a large part of what is driving voters' concerns about immigration. People don't like the idea of 10 to 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States but outside the law. They're appalled that entire American industries--not just agriculture, but hospitality, food processing, construction--operate on the wrong side of the rules, relying on the black market to find the labor they need just to keep their businesses open. The very idea of this second, illegal America is an affront, its practical consequences even more troubling: not just criminal syndicates that thrive on lawlessness, but also the haven it

creates for potential terrorists. And the public is right: If routine illegality is the price of immigration, it's too high a price to pay--even if the newcomers are good for the economy.

So the critics' diagnosis is not far from the mark. But the question is what to do about this other, illegal America--and the fact is that the president has the best idea, arguably the only idea that can possibly work. Many of his critics believe that the answer is to turn off the immigrant influx. We should, they say, make the necessary economic adjustments and do without the imported labor. It's an option; with enough resources, we probably could stop the flow. But are the American people prepared for the changes that would come with that decision? The likely economic sacrifice is incalculable: not just a few extra pennies on the cost of lettuce, but forfeited growth all across the economy, on a vast scale. In many industries today, growth depends on foreign laborers, who filled one in every two new jobs created in recent years. Then there would be the cost of enforcement--a cost in dollars but also in the way we live. Just ask experienced agents like Lee Morgan: Cutting off illegal immigration would require thousands more men on the border, routine sweeps in every city, roadblocks, roundups, massive deportations, a national ID card, and more.

The president has a better solution. He proposes that we face up to the reality of our growing demand for labor, skilled and unskilled. His outline is still just that--an outline--and he is likely to leave it to Congress to fill in the details: to devise a way to match foreign workers with American employers, to make sure American laborers aren't undercut in the process, to design a method for monitoring employers and punishing those who don't comply, and so on. But the White House has nailed down the all-important central principle: If we raise our quotas to make them more commensurate with the existing flow of foreign workers, we can reap the benefits of immigration without the illegality that currently comes with it.

A new, more realistic policy would be much easier to enforce. The best analogy is Prohibition: Unrealistic law is extremely difficult to make stick. Realistic limits are another thing entirely. We can have robust immigration and the rule of law too--if, instead of wishing away the influx, we acknowledge reality, then find a smarter, more practical way to manage it. And that is exactly what the president proposes we do through his guest worker program. The idea is not to expand the total number of immigrants who enter the country each year, merely to provide those who are coming anyway--and would otherwise come illegally--with a safe, orderly, legal route. Assuming it works--assuming, as the White House does, that once most jobs are filled by authorized immigrants, there will be little incentive for others to come illegally--it's a simple, pragmatic solution, and that in itself should recommend it to conservatives.

EVEN MORE IMPORTANT would be the dividends for national security. Hundreds of thousands of foreigners enter the country each year without benefit of background checks or security controls of any kind. Then, once in the United States, they cluster in transient, underground communities, as often as not beyond the reach of the law. The president understands that we must come to grips with these potential terrorist havens, eliminating not just the illegal arrivals but also the illicit population that has accumulated here in recent decades. That's why he has included a provision that would allow unauthorized migrants to come in out of the shadows and get visas. Though mocked as a spineless, soft-hearted giveaway, this part of the plan too is driven by our needs--our security needs.

Under the Bush plan, foreigners seeking to disguise their identities would no longer find fake ID cards readily available on street corners in every American city. The Department of Homeland Security would have a much better grasp of who is here and what their names are and where to look for them if they turn up on an international watch list. Agents like Lee Morgan would be able to get back to their real jobs: tracking criminals and terrorists, not farmhands and busboys. And all this could be achieved without a draconian crackdown of the kind we would need were we to enforce the quotas we have, let alone close the border. Far simpler to bring the law back into line with market reality, then implement the new rules with modest, commonsense enforcement measures of the sort we rely on in every other realm of American life.

But isn't what the critics say true--isn't the president's plan in fact an amnesty? Not necessarily. It depends how it's done. Illegal immigrants should not be forgiven for breaking the rules; they should be offered an opportunity to earn their way back onto the right side of the law. Think of it as probation--that all-American idea, a second chance. The president is unequivocal: Unauthorized workers will not be permitted to jump the queue ahead of legal applicants waiting patiently for visas back in their home countries. And Congress should add other conditions. Those already in the country illegally should be required to pay a penalty; they should have to wait just as long as other applicants for full legal status. While they're waiting, they should be required to fulfill a variety of additional obligations: hold a job, pay taxes, abide by the law, take English classes, and demonstrate their commitment to American values. Once they've met these terms, it might even make sense to require them to go home to pick up their visas.

The vetting alone is sure to be a huge job, and it will have to be done with the utmost care on the part of law enforcement. But the truth is there's no other realistic way to eliminate the vast illegal world these immigrants inhabit: no other way to clear the ground in order to build for the future with a realistic, legal system of the kind the president envisions. After all, we as a nation aren't going to deport 10 to 12 million foreigners. However much they dislike the idea of illegal immigration, the American people aren't likely to have the stomach for that. Nor would it ultimately be in our interest. Surely it makes more sense to retain these trained, already assimilating workers than it does to send them home and start over with people who know nothing of the United States or its ways.

DOES THIS MEAN it may be possible to bridge the gap between the president and his conservative critics? Well, yes and no. The critics are right about many things. Our current "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" policy is unacceptable. The erosion of the rule of law cannot continue. We must secure our borders against terrorists. The critics are also right to be worried about the costs that even legal immigrants impose on social services--primarily schools and hospitals--in the communities where they settle. Any overhaul of the immigration system must deal with those costs, and it ought to include a set of provisions, both carrots and sticks, to encourage assimilation. About all of that, there can be no doubt. The only catch: Just think a minute about this list of concerns. In fact, what the critics find intolerable is not the president's plan; it's the status quo.

The Bush package acknowledges the critics' concerns and attempts to address them with realistic solutions. It's designed to serve America's economic interest. It's our only hope of ending the hypocrisy that undermines our law enforcement. It's the best way to restore the rule of law in our workplaces and enhance security on the border. Issues of assimilation and local service costs are among the practical matters still to be thought through--on the table for Congress to tackle as it writes the legislation to implement the president's plan. But surely eliminating the barriers that now prevent 10 to 12 million U.S. residents from participating in the body politic and requiring them to pay their full freight in taxes would be a good start on both problems. And this can be accompanied by other, more proactive strategies like mandatory health savings accounts for guest workers and incentives for employers to offer them English classes.

Where the critics are most wrong--where they seem most shrewd but are ultimately the most misguided--is in their view of the politics of immigration. Here, too, they see the symptoms accurately enough. Americans are frustrated and angry. They know the system is broken; they want change. Uncertainty about just how to effect that change is driving a wedge into the Republican party, dividing the president from his conservative base in Congress and at the grassroots. And if the system isn't fixed, it could create a dangerous opening for Democrats: an opportunity for Democratic immigration hawks to outflank Republicans, not just on law and order, but even more devastatingly on security. All of this is true--and scary. But the answer isn't to block reform. The antidote is to deliver a remedy, as the White House proposes.

The president isn't misreading public opinion. If anything, he reads it better than his critics do. Most Americans aren't anti-immigrant. As poll after poll shows, what they want is to regain control--of both the border and the underground economy. The paradox at the heart of the Bush plan makes it a little hard to explain to voters. The president is promising to regain control by means of a more generous and welcoming approach to immigration. But that doesn't change the underlying truth: The Bush plan is the only way to restore the rule of law, either on the border or in our communities. It's the best answer to the critics' complaints, the only answer to the illegality that plagues us. And surely--no matter what the skeptics say--it can't be political suicide to give voters a solution to one of the problems that frightens and disturbs them most.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; bush43; hispanderalert; immigration; immigrationplan; racebaitersgalore
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Tamar Jacoby is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
1 posted on 02/23/2005 5:15:26 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: hchutch; Poohbah

PING


2 posted on 02/23/2005 5:16:12 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Miss Marple; Howlin

PING


3 posted on 02/23/2005 5:21:06 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Keyboards are definately going to be popping in the air from the knee jerks by some on FR.


4 posted on 02/23/2005 5:24:29 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Bring `em on...


5 posted on 02/23/2005 5:30:08 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Best explanation I have seen for the President's plan. I am glad I got here early. LOL!


6 posted on 02/23/2005 5:30:14 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Under the Bush plan, foreigners seeking to disguise their identities would no longer find fake ID cards readily available on street corners in every American city. The Department of Homeland Security would have a much better grasp of who is here and what their names are and where to look for them if they turn up on an international watch list.

Most illegals I know of do not have ID cards since they work for cash ($100 / day for unskilled labor in Northern VA). But under the amnesty plan they would make a lot less after having taxes taken out, etc. So where's the incentive for them to sign up?

7 posted on 02/23/2005 5:30:59 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Where the critics are most wrong--where they seem most shrewd but are ultimately the most misguided--is in their view of the politics of immigration. Here, too, they see the symptoms accurately enough. Americans are frustrated and angry. They know the system is broken; they want change. Uncertainty about just how to effect that change is driving a wedge into the Republican party, dividing the president from his conservative base in Congress and at the grassroots. And if the system isn't fixed, it could create a dangerous opening for Democrats: an opportunity for Democratic immigration hawks to outflank Republicans, not just on law and order, but even more devastatingly on security. All of this is true--and scary. But the answer isn't to block reform. The antidote is to deliver a remedy, as the White House proposes.

****************

I guess the critics are just scared and stupid-right, Mr. Jacoby? The Republican Party is doing just fine, thank you. Save your concerns for the Democrats.

8 posted on 02/23/2005 5:36:23 AM PST by trisham (proudly jackbooted and pajama clad!)
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To: palmer

The incentive would be that they would be allowed access to services (schools, hospitals, etc.) which they would not have under the new law, according to the proposal.


9 posted on 02/23/2005 5:37:10 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: palmer
Most illegals I know of do not have ID cards since they work for cash ($100 / day for unskilled labor in Northern VA). But under the amnesty plan they would make a lot less after having taxes taken out, etc. So where's the incentive for them to sign up?

Uh maybe the chance to work and cross the border legally and not pay a coyote $1,000 for a dangerous crossing to work and support a family.

10 posted on 02/23/2005 5:38:36 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: trisham

Could you possibly refute what you don't like in the article? This is a logical plan. Do you have a better one?


11 posted on 02/23/2005 5:38:47 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple

So your answer is more government? That may work in some places. There is a free medical clinic in Shenandoah county that I contribute to, so it probably won't work out there.


12 posted on 02/23/2005 5:41:33 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Dane

When they start paying their hospital bills and get auto insurance I'll consider allowing them legal status. Until that time I just see them as vermin.


13 posted on 02/23/2005 5:41:56 AM PST by jjones9853
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To: Dane

I was referring to the ones already here.


14 posted on 02/23/2005 5:42:23 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: trisham; Jim Robinson; Poohbah

Quite frankly, some of the critics are being stupid. We're being sold a national ID card as part of the answer to this issue.

"Your papers, please."


15 posted on 02/23/2005 5:45:27 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: jjones9853
When they start paying their hospital bills and get auto insurance I'll consider allowing them legal status. Until that time I just see them as vermin

Who says they won't? BTW, those "vermin" clean your toilets and pick and process your food.

16 posted on 02/23/2005 5:45:59 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Miss Marple

It appears that the point of my post wasn't clear. Criticism of the President's plan by members of the Republican Party is not a sign of weakness or erosion in the Party. It's the Democrat Party that is at risk/experiencing an identity crisis at the moment.


17 posted on 02/23/2005 5:47:24 AM PST by trisham (proudly jackbooted and pajama clad!)
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To: palmer

You can't have it both ways. Regardless of how this issue is settled, it is going to require more government action. Wishing won't make illegal aliens disappear; it will either take massive law enforcement for arrests and deportation or more people to keep track of those who become legal through this plan. Ther is no small government solution.


18 posted on 02/23/2005 5:49:09 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: palmer
I was referring to the ones already here

Most probably want to go home and see reletives, a chance not to have to pay a coyote to come back and work is very appealing.

19 posted on 02/23/2005 5:49:56 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

bump for later


20 posted on 02/23/2005 5:59:53 AM PST by umgud
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To: Miss Marple
Ther is no small government solution.

I think big government is a big part of the problem. For example hiring an illegal costs $100 / day for however many days you need them. Hiring a citizen requires unemployment and withholding taxes paid in cash to the government. Although you get to deduct the legal employee costs, it increases your chances of audit. The jobs that these people get helps them assimilate but they aren't paying their way when they are paid in cash. The massive government you are talking about will have to be paid for by the rest of us.

21 posted on 02/23/2005 6:09:25 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Dane

A federal ID issued to illegals will be worthless for security. All will get them, including future terrorists. On the other hand, the assimilation I was talking about in my previous post is the best way to identify people. The local people know who the other local people are and anyone new will be checked out.


22 posted on 02/23/2005 6:11:29 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: jjones9853
Until that time I just see them as vermin.

I see them as people, hence my contributions to the free medical clinic that accepts all people. The government has allowed this to happen, it's not the fault of those who came across the border.

23 posted on 02/23/2005 6:14:34 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Luis Gonzalez

The Jacoby piece trumpets the alleged "reality" of Bush's proposals. The proposals in fact ignore reality. Whatever fine, subtle distinctions the complex Bush proposals make in our law, potential illegal aliens will ignore the complexities, view it as automatic amnesty and flood across our borders.


24 posted on 02/23/2005 6:15:41 AM PST by CivilWarguy
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To: Dane

I see it happening already.


25 posted on 02/23/2005 6:16:57 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: palmer
A federal ID issued to illegals will be worthless for security. All will get them, including future terrorists.

So? American born and bred Johhny Jihad from Marin County, California probably had a drivers license.

Sorry to burst your bubble but not all terrorists are Christian hispanics(in reality very few are).

26 posted on 02/23/2005 6:22:19 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: jjones9853
"Until that time I just see them as vermin."


27 posted on 02/23/2005 6:23:00 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: hchutch

ROTFLMAO!!!

I just got this from you via e-mail!

Great minds...


28 posted on 02/23/2005 6:24:37 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Take a look at the thread on the D.C. Examiner column about Sam Francis...


29 posted on 02/23/2005 6:26:15 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Some people need to be happier in life otherwise they'll be crotchety and die early.


30 posted on 02/23/2005 6:29:28 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dane

I never said that Christian Hispanics are a security threat. The hispanic population around here is one overwhelmingly obvious indication of the failure to protect the borders. There are other smaller communities, even less assimilated and I'm sure the people there have the same work for cash opportunities that the hispanics have around here. Your proposal does not address the security threat, it makes it worse by allowing the federal government to monopolize identification and validation of immigrants when it is local communities that can do it best, provided there is assimilation.


31 posted on 02/23/2005 6:30:39 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Dane

Dane it is illegal. Illegal entry. Name any other country where people are allowed to enter illegally and stay. It's wrong.


32 posted on 02/23/2005 6:30:53 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: jjones9853

Thanks but that kind of talk is what our side doesn't need. Stick to the issues.


33 posted on 02/23/2005 6:32:22 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

It's great that you are able to focus on the one troll against your plan. I suppose that makes it more valid.


34 posted on 02/23/2005 6:33:05 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: palmer
There are other smaller communities, even less assimilated and I'm sure the people there have the same work for cash opportunities that the hispanics have around here. Your proposal does not address the security threat, it makes it worse by allowing the federal government to monopolize identification and validation of immigrants when it is local communities that can do it best, provided there is assimilation

Ok which is it? I hear your side saying that the Federal Govt. has the responsibiltiy to regulate the borders, but you are now saying it should be local communities.

You can't keep moving the goal posts, that's what liberals do.

35 posted on 02/23/2005 6:35:01 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
But . . . but . . . but what's a measely al Qae'da terrorist threat compared to . . . (gasp) . . . L-I-N-E--J-U-M-P-I-N-G-!!! That's beyond terror! That's pure naughtiness!
36 posted on 02/23/2005 6:37:21 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Dane

Obviously the federal government needs to seal the borders. Having the federal government issue ID's is not the same thing. Even state ID's are subject to abuse mainly by corrupt bureaucrats issuing them to unverified people. The problem of identification is a local problem and needs a local solution starting with assimilation.


37 posted on 02/23/2005 6:38:02 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: cyborg; Poohbah

But the law hasn't been grounded in reality.

Do you know what has been the rule in cases involving employment of illegal immigrants? Acquittals. Often in the face of open-and-shut cases.

Our immigration laws are proven to be about as enforcable as Prohibition was. Ultimately, Prohibition did more harm to this country than alcohol ever could have.


38 posted on 02/23/2005 6:41:16 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: cyborg
Dane it is illegal. Illegal entry. Name any other country where people are allowed to enter illegally and stay. It's wrong

Then it would take billions of dollars and manpower to build something akin to a Berlin wall, 5,000 miles long(2,000 mile American/Mexican border, and 3,000 mile American/Canadian border).

JMO, this President who was against building walls would not approve.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall", Ronald Reagan, 1987.

39 posted on 02/23/2005 6:43:04 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: hchutch

They can be enforced. They used to be. Why don't we just let the door swing wide open and let the whole world in?


40 posted on 02/23/2005 6:43:58 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dane

How on earth can you compare a wall keeping illegals out with the Berlin Wall? Anyway, Dane I know your type. I have things to do and don't intend on going around in circles with you.


41 posted on 02/23/2005 6:45:21 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: cyborg

But if the juries are not convicting, what can be done?

Are you seriously proposing that we take juries OUT of any case that might touch on illegal immigration?

Are you implying that Tamar Jacoby is lying about what steps might be needed to enforce the laws?


42 posted on 02/23/2005 6:51:04 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Tamar Jacoby is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.,

Jacoby is a shill for the Bush Administration's guestworker shamnesty. She has been on lots of talk radio stations lately. There is a good audio clip of her being ripped to shreds over in Ken and John's audio archive.

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/blog/audio.php

It is really hard to take this guy seriously because it is obvious that the Federal Government is not taking our border seriously. There are 38,000 cops in New York City controlling a few acres and only 10,000 Border Patrol Agents on the 2000+ mile Mexican Border. Given their failure to commit manpower, it is impossible to give anything the Administration or their lackeys say about wanting to protect us any credibility.

43 posted on 02/23/2005 6:53:31 AM PST by jackbenimble
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To: Luis Gonzalez
But surely eliminating the barriers that now prevent 10 to 12 million illegal U.S. residents from participating in the body politic

Here is what it's all about.
I don't want these illegal U.S. residents participating in the body politic.
But whichever party get's them legal status can count on about that many votes.

44 posted on 02/23/2005 6:57:14 AM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: trisham
"The Republican Party is doing just fine, thank you."

No, thank President Bush and Karl Rove and their ability to attract Hispanic voters despite the best efforts of the Buchanan/Tancredo type anti-Hispanics to give all Republicans a bad name.

45 posted on 02/23/2005 7:05:21 AM PST by bayourod ("It's for the children" has been replaced by "It's to fight terrorists.")
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To: jackbenimble; Poohbah

Okay, what programs will you cut to bring the Border Patrol up to the NYPD's manning levels? Or do you wish to raise taxes?

Where will the money come from?


46 posted on 02/23/2005 7:08:50 AM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: Just another Joe; Dane
"This'll show 'em not to break any traffic laws! I'll just cruise under the speed limit while in the fast lane, and force these I-L-L-E-G-A-L lawbreakers and line-jumpers to go around me!" --Deputy A. Retentive, The Last Defender of Western Civilization

47 posted on 02/23/2005 7:12:07 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Dane; hchutch; Miss Marple
"DOES THIS MEAN it may be possible to bridge the gap between the president and his conservative critics? Well, yes and no. The critics are right about many things. Our current "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" policy is unacceptable. The erosion of the rule of law cannot continue. We must secure our borders against terrorists. The critics are also right to be worried about the costs that even legal immigrants impose on social services--primarily schools and hospitals--in the communities where they settle. Any overhaul of the immigration system must deal with those costs, and it ought to include a set of provisions, both carrots and sticks, to encourage assimilation. About all of that, there can be no doubt. The only catch: Just think a minute about this list of concerns. In fact, what the critics find intolerable is not the president's plan; it's the status quo."

Look at the responses so far.

Bush's plan is the start of changing the status quo, but his critics are so angry at the status quo that they dismiss the plan as a result of it.

48 posted on 02/23/2005 7:12:56 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jjones9853
"When they start paying their hospital bills and get auto insurance "

In most states you can't drive without insurance. You can't get your car inspected, get license plates or renew your drivers' license. Some have roadblocks checking for insurance.

Illegals don't get any different medical treatment than any other people. You don't have to pay your bills or have medical insurance either if you're willing for your family to be treated as charity cases. You can also get free food at many churches if that's the level of existence you choose for yourself and your children. I'm not jealous.

49 posted on 02/23/2005 7:13:30 AM PST by bayourod ("It's for the children" has been replaced by "It's to fight terrorists.")
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To: cyborg

Why do you insist in discussing the past?

No one is saying that we should let the whole world in.

The status quo is unnaceptable, we all understand that...but THEY ARE HERE ALREADY, and the one thing that everyone, from every viewpoint on this issue seems to agree on is that a massive, nation-wide roundup of ten million illegal aliens--men, women, and children of every age--is an impossibility.

Now, in order to find a solution, you need to first come to the realization that stopping the ones who aren't here from coming is a completely different issue than what to do about the ones who are already here.


50 posted on 02/23/2005 7:22:13 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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