Albania to send more soldiers to Iraq

arabtimesonline.com ^ | 26th Feb 2005 | (Reuters)

[mark502inf]

the delicate and potentially explosive balance between Toscs - Gheqs and Christians - Muslims.

Not hardly. The Gheg/Tosk thing is old business ended. Hoxha deliberately mixed them up around the country and then the fall of communism created another rural to urban move that has even further diluted those loyalties. What rivalries exist are akin to our current old south versus the Yankees feelings. As for the Christian-Muslim rivalry, the fact that this Muslim majority country has elected a Christian President and a Christian Prime Minister should give you a clue as to how "strong" that rivalry is.

Pythag, I'm not sure why you are trying to denigrate or diminish Albania as an American ally. There are other peoples in that region who truly are not friendly to America. For example, Greek terrorists have killed several Americans and the Greek government has voted with France and against us on Iraq every chance they could get. And while Albania has done all that it could to assist us in Iraq and in the war on terror, nearby Serbia was Saddam Hussein's ally--built bunkers for Saddam Hussein, shipped him ammunition, repaired his aircraft, and even sent air defense advisers to Iraq as recently as 2002.

If you want to spout off about the Balkans, those are some countries that have truly been "not helpful" in the Rumsfeldian meaning. Speaking of whom:

There he is in Tirana thanking Prime Minister Nano for Albania's support.

[Engraved-on-His-hands]

A major factor that is often overlooked when discussing Islam in Albania is the country's recent history. Enver Hoxha ruled the country for a quarter century, and declared it to be an officially atheist country. Religion was outlawed. Houses of worship were destroyed. The result was a generation in which the people were religious by heritage only, not by practice. They might be considered Islamic or Christian because that was what their grandparents or great-grandparents were, but not usually because that is what they are. To use the commonly quoted figure that Albania is 65-70% Muslim and then conclude that Albanians are Islamic fundamentalists is not a realistic assessment. As I said, most Albanians are religious by heritage only, not by practice. Atheism is dwindling, but it still has a strong influence.

Religion is beginning to revive in Albania. It is a metaphysical battleground, the front lines in a way between Christianity and Islam. Islamic countries are investing heavily, but Christianity has been doing surprisingly well.

I have been to Albania and have taught both Muslims and atheists, with some positive results. My children have been much more often, with much greater results.

My general impression of Albania is that it is pro-American, largely non-religious until recent years, and one of the most fertile fields in the world for the Gospel during the last decade or so. They are also grateful allies and very gracious hosts.

[pythagorean]

The Christian - Muslim rivalry was suppressed everywhere under communism. In Albania, as elsewhere, the trend is for it to reemerge, as suggested by the creation of an Islamic University, presumably with middle eastern funding.

Concerning the American - Albanian "alliance", the main Albanian policy goal in Washington is crystal clear: US help for the secession of partially Albanian-inhabited lands from neighboring states. Of the 2 main Albanian lobby groups, the right wing aacl makes no secret about it, whereas the more Democrat-leaning naac uses thinly veiled language. The lobby has had quite a spectacular success in coaxing to their agenda the Clinton & Kerry crowds as well as the Soros Global Financial Criminals Co. (which, apparently in despair, recently came out declaring its support for Kosovo independence). The Bush administration, however, is more serious about American interests and is also probably aware of Albanian political unpredictability and propensity to violence, societal impenetrability (strictly enforced clan loyalties, code of Lek) and prominent role in international organized crime (especially heroin and sex slavery). Therefore, it has wisely shown no signs of supporting the independence of Kosovo or any other Albanian irredentist agenda. This is the main reason why in 2004:
US Albanians Put Faith in Kerry.

Sending a few more Albanian soldiers in Iraq or holding hands with Rumsfeld means nothing about "loyalty". These are just self-serving symbolic gestures with no chance of changing US policy.

[pythagorean]

I respect your work as a teacher, understand your sympathy for ordinary Albanians and agree with your assessment of religion in Albania. Nevertheless, as I write in my post just above, the main goals of Albanian gestures of alliance to the US have less to do with educational (or financial) aid or religious exchanges and more to do with the promotion of an irredentist agenda that threatens to bring more war to the Balkans.

[mark502inf]

Pythag, you accuse Albania of irredentist claims and of threatening to bring war to the Balkans--well, since the fall of commnism they haven't gone to war with anyone except as our allies against the Taliban in Afghanistan and the insurgents in Iraq. They've been recognized as our friends with visits from Secretary Powell, Secretary Rumsefeld and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs as well as chief of state visits with President Bush.

Meanwhile, the Serbs next door have fought four wars against Christians and Muslims alike in recent years, destroyed more Christian churches than any other group in the Balkans, and produced enough war criminals to ensure extended job security in the Hague. Not to mention providing munitions and advisers used to help Saddam Hussein against America. Yet your disdain is reserved for Albania. It is clear that your interests lie less with America and its allies and interests than with the continuation of old ethno-bigotted Balkans rivlaries.

[Shqipo]

Visited my ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN brothers in Korcha, Albania a few months ago, and all Albanians revere America and have gratitude for our support. So to all the do-nothings (mostly you Serbs) who flock to every article on Albania with your rants.... What the hell are your kin doing these days to support Bush and the grand ole USA? Rrofte Shqiperia!

[pythagorean]

"So to all the do-nothings (mostly you Serbs) who flock to every article on Albania with your rants.... What the hell are your kin doing these days to support Bush and the grand ole USA? Rrofte Shqiperia!"

US Albanians Put Faith in Kerry.

Serbian Americans for Bush 2004.

[M. Espinola]

I simply posted the news item with admiration for Albania's continuing contributions to the global counter war against Islamic related terrorism.

Albania could have easily opted to keep her troops at home as France and Germany chose to do when it came to removing Saddam , but Albania stood tall as did the majority of former Eastern Bloc nations which for so long suffered under other 'Saddams' taking all their orders directly from Moscow.

Albania

[M. Espinola]

I understand your concerns in relation to Islam in Albania. Nevertheless, Albania is indeed assisting to counter radical Islamic jihadiees, therefore unlike some other European nations which have demonstrated a record of appeasement when it comes to joining various counter terrorism coalitions, Albania stands tall.

[pythagorean]

Point well taken. I agree that Albania should be publicly thanked and rewarded for its support in the fight against jihad. It should also, however, be diplomatically dissuaded from directing its political capital against Christian majority neighboring states. The Bush administration appears to be on the right track on this issue, to the obvious dismay of certain Albanian lobbyists who treat their Christian Balkan neighbors as their greatest enemies, instead of concentrating against islamic jihad (see for example Albanian American Civil League).

[M. Espinola]

The hatred all through the southern Balkans extends back Ottoman invasion of the 1380's AD.

The following disturbing quote was taken from this website

1389 Ottomans destroy all effective resistance in the south Balkans at the Battle of Kosovo,* at Serbian Albania border. (* The Orthodox Christian Serbs have been trying to reverse the outcome of this battle ever since! It gave rise to the war in Bosnia [1992-5], and Kosovo [1998-9]. Ed.)

Ottomans destroy all effective resistance to what? Islam?

I agree with what you stated concerning President's Bush' proper diplomatic course with Albania. Hopefully the more exposure the current Albanian government has with American and other western leaders, it should be become obvious remaining in the western camp is far more preferable to that of any ties with fanatical jihadists.

[shpirag]

Want to thank M. Espinola for the news brought in this Board. Also it's important to dig to the famous battle of Kosovo Polje of 1389 and see that there were Albanian princes with their troops fighting against the Turks.
The Croat historian Magas writes:

http://solidarity.igc.org/MagasOnKosovo.html

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Since much of this territory was inhabited by non-Serbs, the Kosovo myth involved reinterpretation of the Kosovo battle as an exclusively Ottoman-Serb affair. The aim was to present the Albanians in particular, ethnically dominant throughout the Kosovo region, as usurpers of Serbian historic territory, indeed essentially "people without history," a barbarian tribe genetically incapable of cultural or political development.
In the mythical reworking of the Kosovo baffle, the conflict was presented also as one between Christianity and Islam, ignoring the fact that the Ottoman side included the Sultan's Christian vassals, some of them ethnically Serb. This served to justify a view of the Serbian Ottoman conflict five hundred years later as a religious war. Since according to the myth, moreover, the Kosovo debacle was caused by a Serb—Vuk Brankovic, fighting originally with Prince Lazar—switching sides at the crucial moment, the need was emphasized for total national (religious and racial) unity.

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Those were the same "christian" Serbs who helped Turks storm and take Constandiniple in 1453.

Read what Greek sources say on Serbs:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=51508

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Serbs embrace Orthodoxy for good of nation, rather than God

But if most Serbs see the Church as a core part of their identity, true religious feeling is in short supply. A 1991 survey showed ethnic Serbs called themselves Orthodox, but only a quarter believed in God.

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Pythagorean is surprised why Albanian diaspora reacts against the President of the "European" Greece which is causing tensions to rise through its president who claims that South Albania is occupied.
This is not a good neighbour policy, especially when they belong to the EU

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=508983

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PRESIDENT STEPHANOPOULOS ADDRESSED GREEK EMIGRANTS IN BELGIUM
Athens, 4 February 2005 (16:00 UTC+2)

Mr. Stephanopoulos was deeply moved when he referred to his origin saying that he comes from the Peloponese, Northern Epirus in south Albania and Cyprus and pointed out that he comes from two still occupied parts of Greece. He added that Europe is a new united motherland in which no nationality is lost.

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Albania's Government, with its problems has not made any territorial claim, but has been a pacifier and stabilizer to the Balkans politics.
And don't try to politicize the vote of the Alb-Americans because some loyal liberal or not citizens of US have already moved to Canada.
At least give Albania credit for its help when the other tough countries with big armies are leaving.

[pythagorean]

You are essentially correct concerning the murky medieval alliances in Kosovo and Constantinople. Your allegation, however, that Albanians were historically dominant throughout the Kosovo region is questionable. After all, the vast majority of toponyms (including the word Kosovo) have Slavic, not Albanian, roots and virtually all medieval churches and monasteries are Serbian. If local Kosovo Albanians had any religious heritage, they apparently discarded it and converted to Islam to gain privileges in the Ottoman Islamic apartheid. Now Albanian extremists are systematically destroying Kosovo's rich Christian and Serbian heritage with the obvious goal to force the remaining Serbs to leave.

" Albania's Government, with its problems has not made any territorial claim, but has been a pacifier and stabilizer to the Balkans politics."

It is technically true that Albania has not officially made any territorial claims. However, it has openly supported the territorial claims of a neighboring ethnic Albanian minority against their sovereign country - Serbia. Concerning broader European peace and stability, here is what was recently said by former president Sali Berisha about current Albanian affairs:

' Drug trafficking and crime, he says, are becoming the staples of economic life in Albania. "We are mentioned in much of Europe as a big crime exporter," he said. "Albania's organized crime, it is one of the most dangerous in Europe. Albania has become a major road of trafficking, especially from Afghani drugs coming to the west. The bill [cost] of drugs is more than two billion dollars according to the [U.S.] State Dept. In this respect dramatic change is needed because organized crime is dealing with people in power. It is well-known". '

Pythagorean is surprised why Albanian diaspora reacts against the President of the "European" Greece which is causing tensions to rise through its president who claims that South Albania is occupied.

?? I never wrote anything about this subject, which you just raised yourself. Well, anyway, if there are any "tensions", they are not indicated in the article you link.