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Showdown at border?
WorldNetDaily ^ | March 7, 2005 | Joseph Farah

Posted on 03/07/2005 10:45:02 PM PST by Dan Evans

Violent, terror-connected gang threatens to confront civilian immigration patrols.

It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.

A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders from federal prison to members of his international criminal organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border control into their own hands.

The American civilians, known as the "Minutemen," say they have some 750 volunteers ready to show up in Tombstone to start policing the border and dealing with illegal immigration.

The Mara Salvatruchas, founded in Los Angeles, has become one of the most violent and widespread gangs throughout South America, the U.S. and even Canada. Many of its members and leaders have been deported from the U.S., but the group is said to be deeply involved in cross-border arms-running and drug-smuggling operations, according to U.S. law enforcement sources.

Lately, the gang has joined forces with former members of the Farabundo Mart�ational Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group, and some U.S. intelligence sources say they may also be cooperating with Islamic terrorist groups – including al-Qaida.

Meanwhile, the Minutemen hope to form a group of civilians from all walks of life to patrol the border day and night – even with the threat of such violence. Their goal is stop the flow of illegal immigration through the Arizona-Mexico border, the biggest entry point into the U.S.

Jim Gilchrist of Orange County, Calif., is leading the project.

"I struck the mother lode of nationalism," he told a local TV station. "I thought I would be lucky to get 12 volunteers. In six months, I've gotten almost 500."

The target is a 230-mile stretch of desert along the Arizona-Mexico border. Some people call the area "America's Open Door." Along this section of the border, more than 43 percent of all illegal entries to the U.S. take place.

Last year, the Tucson Border Patrol apprehended 491,000. But for every person caught, immigration sources say, at least five walk in undetected.

"We're going to set up at least 40 maybe 80 outposts, four to six people per outpost 24/7, looking for people who are infiltrating over that border," said Gilchrist.

To do this, Gilchrist is amassing people from all walks of life to spend a month camped out on the border.

But some say taking the work of border patrol into their own hands could be deadly. While Gilchrist stresses non-violence, he doesn't rule out the possibility that many of his volunteers will be armed.

"Ten percent of our members are retired law enforcement officers who have a right to carry a concealed weapon. They probably will carry and you won't know it," he said.

But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know what they're in for.

"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame.

Border patrol agents have seen a growing problem with violence in recent years. Agents have been attacked by frustrated smugglers with rocks, bricks, even automatic weapons.

According to authorities, violence along the Tucson sector has climbed to an all-time high.

"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe for disaster," said Adame.

But that has not deterred many of the volunteers.

The Minutemen even have an air force. They plan to use about two dozen aircraft to patrol the skies near the border.

Rivera-Paz was arrested three weeks ago and is accused of murdering more than two dozen people in Honduras. He was wanted in connection with the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

The Mara Salvatruchas identify themselves with tattoos, such as "MS" or the numbers 13 and 18, signifying their relationship to the gang. The gang formed in the United States in the 1980s in a Los Angeles prison. The 13 and 18 signify the city streets in L.A. where they hung out.

U.S. officials are concerned the gang members might help sneak al-Qaida terrorists into America.

Rivera-Paz was charged with illegally entering the United States after being deported, but is expected to be extradited to Honduras to face charges in connection with the bus massacre.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; immigration; mexicanborder; minuteman; minutemanproject; minutemen; patrol
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1 posted on 03/07/2005 10:45:02 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans

Here we go again. Similar thread eventually got pulled last night.


2 posted on 03/07/2005 10:47:16 PM PST by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: DTogo

Why was it pulled?


3 posted on 03/07/2005 10:47:56 PM PST by Dan Evans
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Dan Evans
"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame.

Exactly right. A few gunfights might let the illegals know that there are serious risks to entering the USA illegally.

As to the "untrained civilians" remark, who does Adame think won freedom for this country in the first place?

5 posted on 03/07/2005 10:50:10 PM PST by clee1 (Islam is a deadly plague; liberalism is the AIDS virus that prevents us from defending ourselves.)
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To: HiJinx

PING


6 posted on 03/07/2005 10:50:50 PM PST by tertiary01 (Believe your eyes and heart before some tests that can be falsified.)
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To: Dan Evans

The administration will come down squarely on the side of the foreign gang. American patriots will be shot and go to federal prison.


7 posted on 03/07/2005 10:52:08 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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To: Javelina

I see. So he thinks if he ignores a problem it will go away.


8 posted on 03/07/2005 10:52:09 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: sarah_f
The administration will come down squarely on the side of the foreign gang. American patriots will be shot and go to federal prison.

Depends on how many sign up. Maybe they will outnumber the border patrol.

9 posted on 03/07/2005 10:54:33 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans

Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz needs to be taken for a swim
slightly off shore at the Farallon Islands .....


10 posted on 03/07/2005 10:58:03 PM PST by injin
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To: Javelina; Dan Evans

And those were the exact reasons last night, a mild flame war erupted and the post (the article) was very mean-spirited to begin with.


11 posted on 03/07/2005 10:58:25 PM PST by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: Dan Evans

More comments here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1357537/posts

I have no problem with it being posted twice. It's good for this info to get out.


12 posted on 03/07/2005 10:58:42 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Javelina

Well, if certain folks stopped showing up on threads starting flamewars by calling some of us "racists", "neo-nazis", and "vigilantes", it wouldn't be a problem.


14 posted on 03/07/2005 11:00:30 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Dan Evans

The President is asleep.


15 posted on 03/07/2005 11:03:22 PM PST by rimmont
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To: tracer

Why did they stop taking volunteers?


16 posted on 03/07/2005 11:04:25 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Javelina
These threads get pulled every single time they come out for two reasons: 1) The founder of FR does not want to endorse vigilantism. 2) They're magnets for flame wars. They always deginerate into that.

I haven't been around here for long, but it seems like many topics, evolution in particular, and even the Patriot Act are much more likely to generate flames and personal attacks. I very much hope you are not right and that it will not get pulled for either of these reasons, especially #1. I'll be really disillusioned with FR if it does.

17 posted on 03/07/2005 11:04:43 PM PST by Northern Alliance
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To: Dan Evans; DTogo; clee1; sarah_f; k2blader
I heard this the other day and it DID strike a chord:

Minutemen = Undocumented Border Patrol Agents

Just doing jobs that no American Gov't Employee will or wants to do.

18 posted on 03/07/2005 11:10:45 PM PST by drt1
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To: Dan Evans
"Ten percent of our members are retired law enforcement officers who have a right to carry a concealed weapon. They probably will carry and you won't know it," he said. "But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know what they're in for."

"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame."

Adame assumes much -- likely without supporting information. And he should look up the word "ambush" in Webster's and imagine how it might be employed against invaders (BTW, who "trained" them?) stupid enough to start a "gun fight" in the dark against defenders supported by well-concealed backups in large numbers.

And let's not fret about limited numbers of former LEOs (most of who themselves have never been in a real gunfight) carrying concealed. AZ is an open-carry state, and getting an out-of-state CCW is no big deal. Besides, nobody would want to conceal rifles and shotguns, anyway.....

19 posted on 03/07/2005 11:11:30 PM PST by tracer
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Dan Evans

Apparently they're "oversubscribed," and the concept of crossfire and friendly fire no doubt has not escaped them. They still want active and former LEOs (who are not trained for this sort of thing, anyway, by and large) and former LRRPers.....


21 posted on 03/07/2005 11:14:11 PM PST by tracer
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To: k2blader
What did you write in your post #2 that it got deleted?
22 posted on 03/07/2005 11:14:29 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: drt1

I like it, although I think the BP agents in the field are doing as much as they can. It seems like their "higher-ups" are the problem.


24 posted on 03/07/2005 11:15:36 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: sarah_f
"The administration will come down squarely on the side of the foreign gang. American patriots will be shot and go to federal prison."

You give the Feds too much -- or too little -- credit. They will not enjoy the comforts of Ruby Ridge and Waco if they get froggy in this situation....

25 posted on 03/07/2005 11:17:08 PM PST by tracer
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To: Cultural Jihad

If I posted it here, wouldn't it just get pulled again? *LOL*

Someone must've been riding the abuse button. The most unpleasant word I used was "turd".


26 posted on 03/07/2005 11:18:50 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: antoninartaud; clee1
If there ever is any type of violence I will lay the blame for it at the feet of the US Gov't who, in their apathy and Globalist Elitism, have allowed this situation to get to the point where many decent and law abiding citizens see no other path than to take these actions.

Shame on our Officials for ignoring this problem in the face of the overwhelming demands of the people to stop the intrusion of Illegals into the US, our public benefit systems and our security.

27 posted on 03/07/2005 11:19:47 PM PST by drt1
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To: k2blader
I aree. The line Agent is stuck between enforcing the Law and these gigolo's who run the Agencies - AKA Our elected officials.
28 posted on 03/07/2005 11:21:38 PM PST by drt1
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To: tracer; Admin Moderator
Your parody of "Kill a Vermin Brown-Skinned Jaywalker for Jesus" shtick was pretty bad. I give it a 2 in originality, a 0 in believability of earnestness, and a 1 in delivery.
29 posted on 03/07/2005 11:22:00 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: drt1
Agreed.

The PEOPLE are the power in this country; forget what the liberals and RINOs would have you believe. The Government gets its power to ACT from us. Not the other way around. The Godd**n goobermint seems to forget this simple fact.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security...

30 posted on 03/07/2005 11:26:52 PM PST by clee1 (Islam is a deadly plague; liberalism is the AIDS virus that prevents us from defending ourselves.)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Dan Evans

LoL!!!


32 posted on 03/07/2005 11:27:19 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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To: drt1
The line Agent is stuck between enforcing the Law and these gigolo's who run the Agencies - AKA Our elected officials.

Well worth repeating!

33 posted on 03/07/2005 11:27:56 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Dan Evans
The problem is that many of those "minutemen" are white supremacists. There was a link to their website to let people see for themselves. FR does not need to be associated with this.
34 posted on 03/07/2005 11:28:09 PM PST by Ruth A.
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To: Ruth A.

Please provide that link.


35 posted on 03/07/2005 11:29:19 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: sarah_f

"The administration will come down squarely on the side of the foreign gang. American patriots will be shot and go to federal prison."

You got it point on. When it comes to rights, we know which side the govenment will come down on. It is not a good thing to be an AMERICAN versus illegals & drug smuggling pimp perps.


36 posted on 03/07/2005 11:29:34 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Read the Bible wherein He advised His disciples to sell their extra cloaks and buy a sword if they did not have one.

And no less a personage than Peter, "The Rock," smote off the ear of a Roman soldier who was attempting to arrest the Savior, who restored said ear and probably saved the life of Peter and all of His other followers who were present.

And it seems odd and ironic that a person who voluntarily chose the screen name "Cultural Jihad" would have the chutzpah to bring up the subject of another's credibility. Put down the Koran and pick up and read the New Testament before blathering and pontificating concerning matters about which you so obviously know little....

37 posted on 03/07/2005 11:30:32 PM PST by tracer
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To: drt1

Very good. Yes, just temporary guest workers.


38 posted on 03/07/2005 11:30:57 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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To: antoninartaud

Illegal aliens flooding across the border? No problem.

Publicly embarassing the federal government and the administration? Hard time or worse.


39 posted on 03/07/2005 11:33:58 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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To: tracer

So you have a sword, as the Bible directs you to buy. And there's Juan, the pious dishwasher who wants to come to Rico America and work hard and support his family, and he sees you in front of him, carrying your Holy Sword. What happens next, sport?


40 posted on 03/07/2005 11:34:59 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Ruth A.

You know what. I bet you can't provide a link. I bet you don't even know what you're talking about. You're just repeating something you scrolled across one day and took to be the gospel without checking it out for yourself.


41 posted on 03/07/2005 11:36:07 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: k2blader; Ruth A.; tracer

While we're waiting for tracer to explain what is the Holy Deal with his Holy Sword, why not ask the owner about any links which Ruth A. might have seen? He probably authored them.


42 posted on 03/07/2005 11:40:41 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Dan Evans
Maybe a showdown is what's needed for our government to take this serious and do the job they are suppose to be doing now. Hopefully these people who are patrolling the border are armed well enough to kill any gang member scumbags that try to confront them. If I could I would be out there helping them. Our government has shown it's not going to do anything about this problem, so the American people are going to have to start taking it into their own hands and make something big happen.
43 posted on 03/07/2005 11:43:30 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: Ruth A.
The problem is that many of those "minutemen" are white supremacists.

Seems like many of the people who want to take over the Southwest and expell the white people are supremacists too. What does La Raza mean?

44 posted on 03/07/2005 11:44:23 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans

I agree with you there, too.


45 posted on 03/07/2005 11:45:02 PM PST by Ruth A.
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: tracer

"Que pasa? Es una espada or espina que tienes?" Juan asks, as you stand there with your Holy Sword which the Bible told you to buy.


47 posted on 03/07/2005 11:45:49 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: k2blader

This will be a very interesting test case for the parallel and larger problem of islamists in America.

Namely, a threat to our nation where the government just isn't doing anything substantive and it's up to the people.

That's why FR's half dozen Jihadi apologists frequently show up on these threads with the usual 'racist' and 'genocide' stuff looking to have the thread deleted and posters banned.

Jihad is fought in many ways.





48 posted on 03/07/2005 11:47:23 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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To: Dan Evans; Ruth A.

Did your mother teach you that two wrongs make a right? If so I feel sorry for you.


49 posted on 03/07/2005 11:48:26 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: k2blader; tracer

Sorry, should be to tracer.


50 posted on 03/07/2005 11:48:29 PM PST by sarah_f ( Know Islam, Know Terror.)
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