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Posted on 03/09/2005 10:19:19 AM PST by ZGuy
Ichneumon always writes as though he's disproved something in the past. He hasn't.
Radiometric dating is based on assumptions and he knows it. But here he is denying it.
Bad argon dating has been proven at over 16 volcanic sites, by multiple scientists including scientists who were evolutionists. The scientific community has shifted away from K-Ar dating because of the inherent problems, but that has been a recent shift and who knows how many bad assumptions were made based on the bad technique.
Different kinds of radiometric dating do not always agree with each other and often give discordant dates. Discordant dates don't always get published, so nobody knows how often they occur. But they have been published enough that we know it's not uncommon.
And the rest of Ichneumon's post is his standard evo rhetoric of calling Creationist's morons, and why I rarely respond to his posts.
What do you think of the idea of the Demiurge aside from that it is polytheistic?
I had to go look it up. I only have a cursory knowledge of the gnostic heresies and this was a new one.
After reading about it from the following site..Demiurge I think the following sentence sums it up.
"In these weird systems the idea of the world-maker was degraded to the uttermost. "
There were many, and many are still around. I don't buy the idea of a Demiurge, but then, I don't buy the idea of the Devil, which I think is related.
"Asimov? As in the science fiction writer? That's your source? HaHaHaHaHaHa "
I suggest you look him up before you dismiss him as only a science fiction writer. Only a few of his 300+ books were SF. A number were hard science. Whatever the subject, he always brought scholarship, honesty, and rigor to the table.
"There was a thread last week where a star regenerated 100 times faster than scientists had thought possible."
Gee, so the universe would be only a few billion years old after adjusting for that?
"Mt. St. Helens laid down 25 feet of layered rock in just a few hours."
But geologists will treat that as a single layer, and will see that it was laid down at one go.
"I'm familiar with it. It goes like this. If God didn't make it impossible for man in his arrogance and in his limited knowledge to misinterpret his observations and conclude that God is wrong, then God must be evil."
Maybe you better look over those Cliff Notes again. Descartes showed that God cannot be an evil deceiver.
I am, as always, baffled that the literalists actually think all this is an important point.
In the face of the staggering datum that God created the heavens and the earth, just exactly how He did it, and how long it took Him (And what does that mean to a Being not bound by time, anyway?) dwindles into insignificance.
It doesn't matter a whit to me if He did it in an eyeblink or took eleventy bazillion years. I'm only here for a lifetime, anyway.
It is, however, rather painful to watch people trying to explain away geology, astronomy, and the fossil record.
I don't see the Devil as being related, because it's in the older books, the serpent decieving Eve is captured in the work of Moses, Satan's role as accuser is captured by Job, thought to be the oldest book in the Bible, the war in heaven is captured by Isaiah, that some would be raised to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt is captured by the prophet Daniel.
So it seems to me that the concepts are well developed by the ancient Jewish prophets so that by the time Jesus and the apostles elaborate on anything, there is really little room for influence from the Greeks.
I actually kind of view this as the reverse. I view Satan's role as one of continual deception of man. I don't know how much Satan knew or when he knew it, but certainly Satan was familiar with the works of the prophets and probably understood it much better than most. Consequently, Satan is in a pretty good position to create heresies and competing world views. Sometimes even before the thing Satan's trying to discredit occurs.
The idea of a virgin birth became mirrored, yet degraded, in other religions. There were a number of false messiahs. It's really amazing that God was still able to make Jesus stand out so clearly when so many others had tried to claim the title. Things like tongues which occurred at pentacost were mirrored in false religions.
If you study the cults today, you start noticing similarities. One thing that kind of stood out to me is that Jesus is often demoted to non-deity, or just prophet, while Satan is often promoted from a creation to Jesus' brother. It's almost as though Satan's ego can't resist promoting himself instead of just tearing down Jesus.
They will now, but until Mt. St. Helens blew, they generally didn't believe that many layers could occur at one time. Before that, they assumed that the layering within the rock, meant ages.
So now they are a little more careful before they make that assumption.
As far as Asimov, Jesus considered Moses works to be authentic. That's good enough for me. If you want to throw the whole religion out the door, then certainly I'm at a loss to prove Moses actually wrote the first five books. But if you accept Christianity in part, then it seems to me, to be inconsistent, not to take note of Jesus' reference to the works of Moses, and to the flood. And I bring up the flood, because most long agers, throw the flood out, completely. Why on earth they still believe in Jesus when they just made Him into a liar, I don't know.
That's a picture of Amboy Crater near Amboy California...
GAH! You beat me!
One thing that is interesting is that the impact is in Hopi oral legend\history which either means they astutely knew what the structure was while we were still calling it a "crypto volcanic structure" or their ancesters were here about 25-30K years earlier than accepted...
"They will now, but until Mt. St. Helens blew, they generally didn't believe that many layers could occur at one time. Before that, they assumed that the layering within the rock, meant ages."
Excuse me? I remember reading years ago that Mt. Fuji laid down most of the Kanto Plain in a single eruption. I don't think you're correct there at all.
"As far as Asimov, Jesus considered Moses works to be authentic. That's good enough for me."
You want to show me where in the Scriptures we learn that Jesus couldn't tell a parable or an allegory from a literal account of facts?
Perhaps you think Jesus read, "There is nothing new under the sun" in Ecclesiastes, and decided that when a sandal-maker made a new pair of sandals he was actually making an old pair of sandals.
"Why on earth they still believe in Jesus when they just made Him into a liar, I don't know."
Extending and applying your line of reasoning, Our Lord made Himself into a liar when he said, "I am the good shepherd." He didn't keep sheep.
Why's it more square than round?
Science discussion?
Few ever go past 6 posts before they devolve into food fights.
Neither side will ever convince the other that they're smarter and/or better looking.
Correctamundo. Also consider the size of the shockwave that would be coming along with that grouping of pieces.
Jesus spoke of Noah and the flood as being real. Not allegory. He told the Pharisees that Moses told you about Me, not "the people who wrote Genesis who explained it the best they could told you about Me".
There is absolutely no indication that Jesus believed these were allegories. He believed they were real. Jesus said, "Before Moses I am". He was there. He knows what is real and what is not.
That's what the name, Python, means, 'deceiver.' It's something inside us.
I don't think it's srictly inside of us. We do inherit a somewhat rebellious nature from Adam. But Jesus telling his decisciples that Satan had asked to sift them like wheat, isn't a reference to his disciples internal desires.
Likewise, in the Revelations to the apostle John, Satan's cast into the lake of fire along with the angels and people who followed him. Again, that doesn't look in any way shape or form to be an allegory of our wrong internal desires being destroyed. That changing of desires is something that happens through a process here on earth and then is completed and perfectedwhen we are changed at either death or the rapture, when we see Jesus as He is. So the casting of Satan and the rebellious angels into the lake of fire appears to be something completely different.
We'll all find out soon enough, but it all looks like metaphor from here.
Me too. Rode my old Yamaha everywhere in the Mojave Desert in the early 70s with a revolver strapped on my hip. Couldn't do that today. Ever go to Mitchell Caverns near there?
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When they hit, the pieces were accelerating at 9.8 meters/sec2.