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ACLU plans to follow Minuteman Project
Sierra Vista Herald ^ | 9 March 2005 | Bill Hess

Posted on 03/09/2005 1:15:10 PM PST by Spiff

ACLU plans to follow Minuteman Project

BY BILL HESS

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 11:31 AM MST

Sierra Vista Herald/Review

BISBEE, Arizona - The Minutemen are coming to Cochise County next month, and the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona is, too.

At least two ACLU observers will tag along wherever Minuteman Project volunteers go, said, Ray Ybarra, an Ira Glasser Racial Justice Fellow, a title given him by the national ACLU headquarters.

Hopefully, he said, there will be no confrontation with "the vigilantes."

"If they go hiking through the desert, we'll be there with them. If they sit in lawn chairs, we'll sit in lawn chairs next to them," he said.

The object is to watch the volunteers' actions.

By following the volunteers, the ACLU of Arizona is putting those involved in the Minuteman Project on notice that the violation of the civil rights of "migrants" will not be accepted, Ybarra said.

Chris Simcox, co-organizer of the Minuteman Project and longtime advocate of helping patrol the border using citizens, said the ACLU is not a detriment to the proposed operations planned in April. He said ACLU members have patrolled with the Civil Homeland Defense, a Tombstone-based group he formed.

Simcox said the ACLU observers can walk along with the volunteers and sit with them.

The more presence there is, the bigger the message will be to illegal immigrants, Simcox said.

"It will create more of a deterrent," he said.

On previous operations, ACLU members could not find that anything wrong had been done, he added.

Ybarra, a native of Arizona who was born in Douglas and now works out of that community as part of the fellowship program, said groups who come into the county with the intention of enforcing federal immigration laws at the minimum have to be monitored.

Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever has been remiss in stopping the assault on illegal immigrants, Ybarra said Tuesday.

"The activities of the current vigilantes and those new volunteers constitutes unlawful imprisonment, but unfortunately the Cochise County sheriff attended a meeting of the Minuteman Project as a sign of support.

"To this date, he (Dever) has yet to arrest any private citizens for unlawfully detaining or abusing migrants despite a vast amount of evidence hat these incidents have occurred," he said.

Ybarra sent Dever a letter Monday calling on the sheriff to do his duty as the county's top law enforcement officer. Ybarra's letter urged the sheriff to uphold Arizona laws. He said the Minuteman Project has the potential to violate a number of state statutes, including false imprisonment and unauthorized detention.

Dever said Ybarra's idea that he is not upholding the law is based on innuendo and false assumptions.

The sheriff reiterated that every complaint about illegal immigrants being denied any of their rights and allegations of being assaulted or harmed in any way are investigated and reports submitted to the Cochise County attorney and the federal government for decisions if charges are to be made.

As for Ybarra's assertion that he met with those putting on the monthlong border campaign and patted them on the back, Dever said nothing is further from the truth.

The sheriff met with Jim Gilchrist, a co-organizer of the Minuteman Project, and other volunteers in Tombstone in January. Dever said that meeting was to inform Gilchrist of Arizona's laws and the sheriff's view of the laws.

Dever said no criminal activities will be condoned by anyone, those involved in the Minuteman Project, groups or individuals supporting them or organizations and individuals against them. The application of the law will "be swift," he said.

"I'm not going to let anything get out of hand," he said.

There are reports a violent gang called MS-13, made up of criminals with ties to Central American nations, may attempt to disrupt the Minuteman Project, the sheriff said. Although intelligence on MS-13's intentions are not clear, other reports also include the potential that pro and counter groups may show up, Dever said.

"It's a powder keg just waiting for someone to light the fuse," the sheriff said.

By having additional people along the border, such as the proposed legal observers of the ACLU of Arizona, the situation could deteriorate, the sheriff said.

According to a Feb. 28 update on the Minuteman Project Web site, 863 people from all 50 states, including two from Canada, have signed up to come to Cochise County.

Many people who want the border closed say the United States is being invaded by illegal immigrants to the detriment of the nation's economic well being and security.

"The migration by our southern neighbors is not an invasion," Ybarra counted.

He said immigration has always been part of U.S. history, and immigrants make the nation stronger.

ACLU of Arizona will be training individuals as legal observers with workshops in Douglas, Tucson and Phoenix. Ybarra said people in northern California have expressed interest in assisting ACLU of Arizona with its planned project.

"Legal observers will be following these private citizens as they attempt to illegally enforce federal immigration laws," he said.

The observers will report any violations to lawyers, who will be available to file actions against the Minuteman Project people, Ybarra said.

To Ybarra, the Minuteman Project volunteers are dangerous.

"The vigilantes are symbolic of the fear and misunderstanding that exists in our society," he said.

HERALD/REVIEW senior reporter Bill Hess can be reached at 515-4615 or by e-mail at bill.hess@svherald.com.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: aclu; aliens; borderintruders; borderinvasion; borders; cochisecounty; illegalaliens; illegals; immigration; minutemanproject
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Now, wait! Which law enforcement agency does the ACLU represent...hmmmm!?

If the Minuteman Project volunteers violate the law or someone's civil rights, it is up to law enforcement to see it and deal with it. The ACLU and its observers are NOT part of any law enforcement agency. Therefore, by their own definition, the ACLU observers are vigilantes themselves. The ACLU now has no right to complain about the MMP coming to Cochise County to observe and report lawbreakers to the proper authorities when the ACLU itself is sending people to Cochise County to observe and report potential lawbreakers.

1 posted on 03/09/2005 1:15:12 PM PST by Spiff
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To: idratherbepainting; JackelopeBreeder; AZBear; AZHSer; SandRat; HiJinx; Marine Inspector; B4Ranch; ..

Ping


2 posted on 03/09/2005 1:16:47 PM PST by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Spiff

No doubt the ACLU is aching to do a smear job on the MMP. Those good folks will have to watch their backs on all sides.


3 posted on 03/09/2005 1:18:34 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Spiff

I have great respect for people willing to take action to protect our borders. May God Bless them.


4 posted on 03/09/2005 1:18:47 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Liberals should be seen and not heard.)
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To: Spiff

Boy, it would be a damn shame if some of those ACLU city folks got lost out there in that big ol' desert. A damn shame!


5 posted on 03/09/2005 1:19:04 PM PST by SpyGuy (Liberalism is slow societal suicide. And screw political correctness: Islam is the Religion of Death)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Spiff

"By following the volunteers, the ACLU of Arizona is putting those involved in the Minuteman Project on notice that the violation of the civil rights of "migrants" will not be accepted, Ybarra said."

Seems to me if the Minutemen are on private property then the ACLU folks will be trespassing and subject to arrest.


7 posted on 03/09/2005 1:20:11 PM PST by politicalwit (Republican and Democrats are across the aisle but sleep in the same bed.)
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To: Spiff
[co-organizer of the Minuteman Project Chris] Simcox said the ACLU observers can walk along with the volunteers and sit with them. The more presence there is, the bigger the message will be to illegal immigrants, Simcox said. "It will create more of a deterrent," he said.

Once the ACLU fully comprehends this fact and notices that the "weapons" of the MM Project are cell phones and walkie-talkies, they'll bail pretty quickly.

8 posted on 03/09/2005 1:20:45 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Spiff; All

The more people the illegals see, the more likely they are to turn and run...

In the days of clinic sit ins, we used to use the pro-aborts who tried to keep the clinics open to our advantage-- it looked like a giant clusterfudge to women trying to get into the clinic -- it turned about 99% of them away..

Same thing will happen...

Maybe the minutemen should post giant (ie, 5x5 signs) on wooden posts with warnings that immigration officers are in the area and will arrest those trying to get across.


9 posted on 03/09/2005 1:21:42 PM PST by 1stFreedom (1)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Mr. Mojo

I'm worried some "illegal-phile" will make something up, i.e. LIE, in order to create a negative, anti-MMP controversy.


11 posted on 03/09/2005 1:22:47 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: k2blader

A legitimate concern.


13 posted on 03/09/2005 1:23:28 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Spiff

Can we allow the illegals to stay and deport the ACLU guys? At least most of the illegals are willing to do an honest days work... the same can't be said for the ACLU.

(/sarcasm)


14 posted on 03/09/2005 1:24:22 PM PST by E. V. Republitarian MD
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To: Spiff
If the ACLU is against this....uh.....
15 posted on 03/09/2005 1:27:02 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (aitch tee tee pea colon 2 slashes dubya dubya dubya dot proud patriots dot org)
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To: k2blader

Maybe two for the price of one???


16 posted on 03/09/2005 1:27:23 PM PST by mlc9852
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Brad's Gramma

And if Rush is for it... !


18 posted on 03/09/2005 1:28:04 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: E. V. Republitarian MD
Can we allow the illegals to stay and deport the ACLU guys? At least most of the illegals are willing to do an honest days work... the same can't be said for the ACLU.

(/sarcasm)

LOL!

19 posted on 03/09/2005 1:28:16 PM PST by P8riot (Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.)
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To: Spiff
To Ybarra, the Minuteman Project volunteers are dangerous.

Dangerous to the goals of the Aztlan gang, that is.

20 posted on 03/09/2005 1:29:34 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: k2blader

I heard part of that yesterday...did he comment again today?


21 posted on 03/09/2005 1:30:11 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (aitch tee tee pea colon 2 slashes dubya dubya dubya dot proud patriots dot org)
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To: Spiff
My initial reaction to this story was predictable, but it looks like the ACLU crowd have shot themselves in the foot again. These folks are, as the ACLU admits, going to be sitting in lawn chairs. They're going to be hanging around and watching, and then calling the authorities.

In other words, the ACLU now has a problem with people who see something illegal going on calling the authorities.

I wonder if they will be alerting the people in the rest of the country that they'd better think twice about calling the police if they observe a crime happening ala Kitty Genovese...or gay bashing...or rape. Don't call when you see something illegal--THINK FIRST! The ACLU will be inspecting you!

As the man in the article points out, the more people there, the bigger a bunch the illegals will see; the more false (or even true) charges the ACLU makes, the more TV time this issue gets. And frankly it isn't a BAD thing to keep possibly edgy people from going off on some illegal, either.

A win-win situation.

22 posted on 03/09/2005 1:31:06 PM PST by Darkwolf377 ( writing stream of consciousness posts like a post-modern prometheus)
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To: SpyGuy
...Boy, it would be a damn shame if some of those ACLU city folks got lost out there in that big ol' desert. A damn shame!

A guy I know was Elk hunting up by Jackson Hole Wyoming.

Some anti-hunters started following them, so he and his son went back to their pickup and got their backpacks. They then walked into the forest until it started to get dark.

They then got out their sleeping bags and tents and prepared to spend the night. The anti-hunters didn't have any supplies so he took them some plastic sheets to use as a tent. They then got into their tents and went to sleep.

About 3:00 in the morning he checked and saw that the anti-hunters were asleep. He and his son packed up their stuff and left the area. They went about their hunting and returned to their pickup.

It took the Forest Service two days to find the anti-hunters. They were cold and hungry when they were found.

23 posted on 03/09/2005 1:33:10 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: k2blader

Funny, I thought that they should be watching out for AMERICAN civil liberties. They should change their name to illegal alien civil liberties union.


24 posted on 03/09/2005 1:34:48 PM PST by Always Independent
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To: Spiff

Good! I hope there are "counter-protesters" there too. The more the more publicity.


25 posted on 03/09/2005 1:35:36 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: Brad's Gramma

I've been listening on and off (on tape delay). He hasn't mentioned it so far today.

Earlier thread on the subject here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1358754/posts


26 posted on 03/09/2005 1:36:11 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Brad's Gramma
If the ACLU is against this....uh.....

Exactly.

The ACLU is against the MMP, and Rush Limbaugh (and many other high-profile conservatives) is FOR the MMP.

Gee, I wonder who's on the right side?

The folks who've been desperately attempting to tie the MMP with neo-Nazi types are looking pretty foolish right about now.

27 posted on 03/09/2005 1:38:00 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: k2blader

Thanks!


28 posted on 03/09/2005 1:41:04 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (aitch tee tee pea colon 2 slashes dubya dubya dubya dot proud patriots dot org)
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To: Spiff
By following the volunteers, the ACLU of Arizona is putting those involved in the Minuteman Project on notice that the violation of the civil rights of "migrants" will not be accepted, Ybarra said.

Apparently Ybarra doesn't think that the participants in the Minuteman project have rights either, such as freedom of association.

29 posted on 03/09/2005 1:44:59 PM PST by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Spiff
To Ybarra, the Minuteman Project volunteers are dangerous. "The vigilantes are symbolic of the fear and misunderstanding that exists in our society," he said.

I guess Neighborhood Watch groups should come under ACLU scrutiny as well.

The ACLU no longer represents anything but liberal political interests.

31 posted on 03/09/2005 1:46:58 PM PST by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: Spiff

I am sure they will be very Welcome when the ACLU communists identify themselves.


32 posted on 03/09/2005 1:48:47 PM PST by Fast1 (Destroy America buy Chinese goods.)
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To: Dan(9698)

Love at least one feel-good story per day, and that one certainly suffices.


33 posted on 03/09/2005 1:48:49 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: politicalwit
Seems to me if the Minutemen are on private property then the ACLU folks will be trespassing and subject to arrest.

Now, now, what makes you think that property rights are a concern of the ACLU? It's not like property rights are in the Bill of Rights!

Oh, dang, they are. Well, then, they aren't in the parts of the Bill of Rights that MATTERS!

34 posted on 03/09/2005 1:49:13 PM PST by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: Mr. Mojo
Once the ACLU fully comprehends this fact and notices that the "weapons" of the MM Project are cell phones and walkie-talkies, they'll bail pretty quickly.

Don't forget the evil high-powered assault binoculars...

35 posted on 03/09/2005 1:50:04 PM PST by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Spiff

Anyone wanting to join the fun can get further information at http://www.minutemanproject.com/


36 posted on 03/09/2005 1:50:41 PM PST by BubbaGOP
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To: Spiff
Now we need a group out there to keep an eye on the ACLU... and someone to watch that group. And some more to watch them! Perhaps if there were enough people milling around on the border watching one another, they would scare off the illegals!

It... could... WORK!

37 posted on 03/09/2005 1:54:25 PM PST by Redcloak (More cleverly arranged 1's and 0's)
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To: Redcloak
Now we need a group out there to keep an eye on the ACLU... and someone to watch that group. And some more to watch them! Perhaps if there were enough people milling around on the border watching one another, they would scare off the illegals!

You know, I may actually do this to make the point about the ACLU vigilantes. Need a fake group name and a website and I'm set. Wait, I'm the President of a club and we have a website and I've sent dozens of press releases out in the past. This could be FUN!

38 posted on 03/09/2005 1:59:51 PM PST by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Spiff

>>"The migration by our southern neighbors is not an invasion," Ybarra counted.<<

Ybarra seems intent that everything must be done under the legal standards. Why not call him and tell him where the closest legal Points of Entry are so that he can pass it on to the illegal migrants who refuse to use these Points.


39 posted on 03/09/2005 2:02:04 PM PST by B4Ranch (The Minutemen will be doing a 30 day Neighborhood Watch Program in Cochise County, Arizona.)
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To: Spiff
The ACLU, the MMP, the BP, illegal aliens, coyotes, and probably a few Federales, all being watched by the media along the Arizona-Mexico Border... sounds liike the Perfect Storm.
40 posted on 03/09/2005 2:06:30 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: Fatalis
The ACLU, the MMP, the BP, illegal aliens, coyotes, and probably a few Federales, all being watched by the media along the Arizona-Mexico Border... sounds liike the Perfect Storm.

You didn't mention the Cochise County Sheriff's office, angry local residents, the high-tech American Border Patrol, and the boys from Civil Homeland Defense. You also forgot to throw in the super violent MS-13 gang as well as the murderous drug cartels.

Perfect storm is right. Secure the border and it all goes away. (See U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4)

41 posted on 03/09/2005 2:10:36 PM PST by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Spiff
Any word when PETA, FAIR, ALF, and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance are showing up in Arizona?

The Minutemen sure are getting a lotta folks' attention.

42 posted on 03/09/2005 2:49:57 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Spiff

ACLU always was a vigilante organization. They have arrogated to themselves the right to harass and intimidate those who may not have been clear on very fine nuances of the law, but believed that they understood the broad meaning of that law. The ACLU has argued that black is white, so often, that the original definitions are blurred beyond satisfactory resolution, and the letter of the law they claim to stand for has become whatever they can convince a judge of their choosing to declare it to be.

In short, ACLU has become the very worst representation of what barristry stands for, the use of the legal system not to represent the search for truth, but to deny any degree of impartial justice to the opposite party.


43 posted on 03/09/2005 2:57:20 PM PST by alloysteel ("Master of the painfully obvious.....")
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To: Spiff
"The migration by our southern neighbors is not an invasion," Ybarra counted.

Too bad the majority of America doesn't agree with you, Senor Ybarra.

44 posted on 03/09/2005 3:07:36 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: Spiff; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; ...
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

Spiff, thanks for posting this one. I've been busy today. Did you also manage to post the thread about the Governor telling the Mexican Delegation where they could shove their concerns about Mexican migrants?

45 posted on 03/09/2005 3:13:29 PM PST by HiJinx (They're not vigilantes, they're undocument Border Patrol agents.)
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To: Dan(9698)

It warms my heart to hear stories like this :)

The Dumba$$e$ get what they deserve. LOL


46 posted on 03/09/2005 3:14:04 PM PST by 7mmMag@LeftCoast
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To: HiJinx; Spiff

Here's a link to the story in the AZ Repulsive online print edition:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0308delegation08.html

This story does not have Governor Napolitano's comments in it. I'll transcribe them from home if we can't find them online...


47 posted on 03/09/2005 3:16:08 PM PST by HiJinx (They're not vigilantes, they're undocument Border Patrol agents.)
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To: Spiff

"If they go hiking through the desert, we'll be there with them. If they sit in lawn chairs, we'll sit in lawn chairs next to them," he said.

>>>

They gotta ask real nice for an reserve food and beverages though... ;)


48 posted on 03/09/2005 3:26:12 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (I just took a Muhammad and wiped my Jihadist with Mein Koran...come and get me nutbags.)
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To: Spiff

Simcox said the ACLU observers can walk along with the volunteers and sit with them.

>>>

When they break out the 'peace' pipes and the 'home rolled' 'tobacky' - that's when they gotta go! lol


49 posted on 03/09/2005 3:28:03 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (I just took a Muhammad and wiped my Jihadist with Mein Koran...come and get me nutbags.)
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To: Spiff
House OKs 4 measures on entrants of people who cross the border illegally.
50 posted on 03/09/2005 3:28:57 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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