Posted on 03/11/2005 6:36:52 PM PST by Stars&StripesNE
--Claiming there are no sleeper cells in the us (only an idiot would believe this)
--Claiming OBL never had a Kidney problem
--Claiming that Putin is a good man
1. Facts matter - I never saud there was NO WMD activity involved with Iraq - I said that there was no "active" WMD program going on (meaning no program producing actual "end product" WMD's). - I have long said about Saddam's late 80's WMD program - that is common-knowledge - I have also said that Saddam had all the capabilities to produce WMD in somewhat short notice. (but that is different than what you keep insisting that Saddam was producing WMD's with an active program and has moved these to Syria) -
And mind you - What does Syria gain from this?? (an assured Military strike).
2. Sleeper cells in the US - (I have already answered this - you just don't like the answer).
3. UBL Kidney problem - Aww, your print sources let you down again (you'll see).
4. Putin has done a lot of good - You simply have a small / simple view of a much more complex situation (not surprising). - And again, you keep insisting about Putin that you know more about him than President Bush does (please).
LOL, I guess it is futile to argue with a troll. You have now revised your positions on WMDs. You originally claimed that he destroyed them, and that they found no "residuals" of the WMD related programs in Iraq. I encourage everyone here to read through his previous statements in this thread.
When confronted with facts about putin, you simply dismiss them and claim that I have no understanding of the situation. This shows your supreme ignorance, and I have illustrated such time and time again.
You are a troll.
You answer all of my other points but one you don't seem to address is: How is North Carolina this time of year?
Oh wait, since you put in one article from the WSJ you think that means??? - Wait, it is another print source so it must be true - In fact it is nothing but an article about the "what ifs" - it doesn't make any concrete claims within that article -
Lastly the Duelfer report says exactly what I have and I quote from your LINKED article -
"DUELFER BRIEFS CONGRESS, SAYS IRAQ'S DUAL USE FACILITIES AND ONGOING RESEARCH PROGRAMS WOULD HAVE ALLOWED IRAQ TO "PRODUCE BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL AGENTS ON SHORT NOTICE"
See, the ability to produce on short notice - It does not say they found "end product" WMD's - (you simply can't deal with this fact).
The pictures from the Duelfer report do not show WMD's - they show munitions which could be used with WMD's (big difference).
You probably missed my obscure humor...as your post was/is surrounded by some sort of 1 on 1 to the death...flame war. And I actually think your post was great..!!
Hehehe....
FRegards,
It's time to bring out the big guns in exposing this fraud. I have waited long enough. I have posted many of his old responses which show he is a troll (Republican judges will bring back a police state, etc).
I have asked him a few times already about North Carolina and he gives no response. I ask this because I went through his old posts and found a bit of a discrepancy . He states in the first two taht he lives in Michigan (from 12/2 and 12/9). Then a month later he states that he lives in NC (1/13/05). I guess I could give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he moved....BUT...a mere 7 days later he claims that he lives in Michigan. Did he move and move back? Hahah!!!
Here are the posts (also please pay attention to the last post of his, it has some really interesting info about his opinions of a radicalized Muslim community):
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Here he says he lives in MI:
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The State of the Michigan GOP
Posted by DevSix to Torie
On News/Activism 12/02/2004 8:05:49 PM CST · 13 of 19
The MI GOP has most certainly become a joke - I have lived here for over 25 years -
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here he mentions that he worked in Detroit MI
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Tyson Arrested Again
Posted by DevSix to Types_with_Fist
On News/Activism 12/09/2004 11:19:31 AM CST · 69 of 72
I get my information from working with Kronk Gym in Detroit, MI for years - And being a semi-active participant in the world of boxing since -
_____
Hmm...in this post he says he lives in NC (less than a month later) Could he have moved???
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GOP willing to take hike for reform
Posted by DevSix to Woodworker
On News/Activism 01/13/2005 7:30:11 PM CST · 8 of 13
I hope Bob Novak is wrong again on this one. A tax hike is what killed Bush's father in the 1992 election.
Living in NC I get to see a lot of Graham and I think he is mostly a fool -
Just to clarify (since I can't edit) his last post the text "American muslims' deafening silence after 911 suggests something. " is a comment from another Freeper that he is responding to.
Posting all or part of the story might help on the details front, so here goes. In this case, the details reveal this is not a new story, and the bribe offer took place sometime between 1991 and 1997.
Saddam's $2m offer to WMD inspector
By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 12/03/2005)
Saddam Hussein's regime offered a $2 million (£1.4 million) bribe to the United Nations' chief weapons inspector to doctor his reports on the search for weapons of mass destruction.
Rolf Ekeus, the Swede who led the UN's efforts to track down the weapons from 1991 to 1997, said that the offer came from Tariq Aziz, Saddam's foreign minister and deputy.
Mr Ekeus told Reuters news agency that he had passed the information to the Volcker Commission. "I told the Volcker people that Tariq [Aziz] said a couple of million was there if we report right. My answer was, 'That is not the way we do business in Sweden.' "
A clean report from Mr Ekeus's inspectors would have been vital in lifting sanctions against Saddam's regime. But the inspectors never established what had happened to the regime's illicit weapons and never gave Iraq a clean bill of health.
The news that Iraq attempted to bribe a top UN official is a key piece of evidence for investigators into the scandal surrounding the oil-for-food programme. It proves that Iraq was offering huge sums of cash to influential foreigners in return for political favours.
Nile Gardiner, of the Heritage Foundation in Washington, who has followed the inquiries, said: "It's the tip of the iceberg of what the Iraqis were offering. For every official like Ekeus who turned down a bribe, there are many more who will have been tempted by it."
Saddam and his henchmen siphoned off an estimated £885 million from the humanitarian scheme, allegedly paying some of that to 270 foreign politicians, officials and journalists.
DevSix claims: "Not at all true - Large Muslim community here in Dearborn, MI and many have been very outspoken in support of America while at the same time showing scorn for those in Al Qeade as well as the Saddam regime."
Sorry to keep pinging you Peach, Marty, Bad Company....but I feel this is important. Pay attn to his statement here (and consider his past statements about how there are no sleeper cells, etc) and then read these stories:
"3/2/2005: Michigan Muslim Helped Hizballah"
http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0503/02/A05-105122.htm
"DEARBORN — A Dearborn man pleaded guilty Tuesday to providing material support to Hezbollah, a foreign terrorist organization."
"Khomeini in Dearborn"
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15983
"Last Friday, Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, held an anti-American, anti-Israel demonstration. Protestors carried a large model of Jerusalem’s Al-Aqsa Mosque and waved signs bearing slogans such as “US Hands Off Muslim Land.” But the most arresting image was of a Muslim woman carrying a large sign featuring the face of the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini."
After all of this proof, it is undeniable that DevSix is a troll...and possibly more.
Actually, it was Rolf Ekeus, the Swede who led the UN's efforts to track down the weapons from 1991 to 1997. See my post #169, which has most of the story on which this thread is based. If the person who started this thread had just put in the entire article, or excerpted the significant paragraphs, folks who read and respond to the thread would understand the real point of the article -- which is important.
Hussein was offering bribes to UN types for years. Ekeus says he turned down the bribe offered to him, but others investigating the oil-for-food scandal say this is just the tip of the iceberg, and that many others took bribes.
bttt
This is great!
Here, we've had two years of the mantra NO WMD's; NO WMD's;
And suddenly, with the beginning of a democratic movement amongst the muslim savages, Sunday's headlines report that many of the potential weapon mfg. sites were "systematically looted" within days of the beginning war;
The UN inspectors are now doing some backtracking on what they found; the media is beginning to question whether surrounding states may have been the beneficiaries of the machinery of destruction:
And, now we hear of bribes!!!
WTF were all these guys, "experts," within the past few years?????
Is it possible the the UN and the Intl. Atomic blah, blah Commission can be so corrupt as to sit on all these facts for three years to see how this war and dead American Serviceman would fail??
And, now that the sands are lining up for freedom and democracy, they gotta flick the scorpions off their shoulders and admit the potential truth????
This is great, strap yourselves in for this ride, it'tl be bumpy!!
Thanks for that correction. Hans was the only one I could think of, and I knew he made an about-face on the WMD after Powell made his presentation, so he seemed like a likely candidate.
Glad to know the real info.
My response would have been. Well we let the OPERATOR handle everything and look what it got us...9-11, and 3000 dead New Yorkers.
-All physical objects leave something called "residuals" wherever they are, which can't be gotten rid of, ever.
-Our military has engaged in "complex hex operations" in Iraq. (Not just "hex operations", mind you, but complex ones.)
-They've found NO WMDs or "residuals" (except for the 50-something shells mentioned in Duelfer report, etc., and all other stuff which DevSix conveniently ignores...)
-Therefore, Iraq had no WMDs. (Or, no "stockpiles", or no "large stockpiles", or "not as much as Bush thought", depending on where the goalposts need to be placed....)
-Except for the WMDs which we know, and DevSix admits, Iraq had prior to 1991 or so, whose "residuals" did apparently magically vanish somehow, by a process which evidently cannot be repeated ever again.
That about sums it up, I think.
However, I do not share your opinion that DevSix is a "troll". I think he's sincere. (Sincerely misguided.)
I do think that argument is pointless with him (or with anyone committed to the "No WMDs" line). The only thing it might accomplish is having a moderator tell you to cease & desist. Of course, that happened to him, not me, as a result of our exchange. Or so he said when he bowed out.
Please - You are so small - I grew up and lived in MI for my first 29 years (currently still have a house there in Oakland County) - I have since for work related reasons moved to NC (some on here will understand why I'm sure) - Not you Stellar, just like "al Qeade" - It is above your head).
It is too funny how you can't debate reality or your positions - so you revert to "troll" or trying to suggest a person can't have residences in two States - (How utterly silly and foolish).
Go post another private freepmail - Lets see how long you last (a Mod is going to zot you soon enough).
See my post #177 -
I do not approve of posting freepmails on an open forum and feel that should not have happened to you.
Thank you for the explanation about the other matter.
-Our military has engaged in "complex hex operations" in Iraq. (Not just "hex operations", mind you, but complex ones.)
-They've found NO WMDs or "residuals" (except for the 50-something shells mentioned in Duelfer report, etc., and all other stuff which DevSix conveniently ignores...)
-Therefore, Iraq had no WMDs. (Or, no "stockpiles", or no "large stockpiles", or "not as much as Bush thought", depending on where the goalposts need to be placed....)
-Except for the WMDs which we know, and DevSix admits, Iraq had prior to 1991 or so, whose "residuals" did apparently magically vanish somehow, by a process which evidently cannot be repeated ever again.
That about sums it up, I think.
Lets see if I can re-address some of your suggestions of my positions that I think you have wrong -
1. Yes, any WMD program would leave "residuals" (what do you think we are looking for there - simply a box labeled "end product WMDs" - What do you think UN Inspectors were looking for (stop the jokes, even though I would agree with most) - But they to were looking for "residuals" of a WMD program -
The fact is any active WMD program would leave residuals (and I will list some of them again since you claim broadly that I say "something called residuals" ) - Residuals left over from any active WMD program would be of the human element, chemical element, production element, prototype element, storage element, logistics element, disposal element, etc, etc, etc) - There would be residuals of all these types to any "active" WMD program.
That is quite different than to say an "old" WMD program which ended 10 to 12 years prior (sure many residuals from that time frame could be cleaned up) - But your suggestion that an "active" WMD program (producing WMD's) could be cleaned up and swept completely away in less than a 10 to 12 month time frame is simply hogwash!
The Duelfer report actually says exactly what I have been saying in many regards - That we have found that Saddam had all the capabilities to produce WMDs in a somewhat short time frame....but we have found NONE in the end product state (again, the Duelfer report agrees with my premise...not yours) -
Lastly the World knew about Saddam's late 80's WMD program - In fact US personal along with UN inspectors destroyed much of these after the First Gulf War - We also know we destroyed some of these via air strikes in the first Gulf War -
We also know we had a estimate (CIA estimate, mind you) of apprx what quantities of various WMDs we expected Saddam had - But this was still just an estimate (and we know how off the CIA has been with its Intel record). Therefore it is foolish to keep acting like we don't know what happened at all to Saddam's late 80's WMD program. (we do know what happened to great amounts of it....but we aren't sure about all of it....nor are we sure even what he actually had).
Lastly, going into Iraq in 2003 we were certain that Saddam had reactivated his WMD program - From the looks of things on the ground it appears he had not reactivate it (and surly did not reactivate to the levels the CIA assured was a "slam dunk"!) -
Which brings one back to the CIA estimate of how much WMDs Saddam even had back in the late 80's (does it not).
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