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Europe's plagues helped halt AIDS
The Australian ^ | March 12, 2005 | Russell Jenkins

Posted on 03/12/2005 1:45:17 PM PST by Woliff

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To: Woliff

An interesting (but very sad) sideline... I'm reading a disturbing book re: Plagues and catastrophes as a result of God's justice. Its called Sent to Earth by Michael Brown, read it if you don't mind missing sleep.


21 posted on 03/12/2005 3:04:04 PM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: NorCalRepub
that is what I was thinking too.....bacterial plagues vs AIDs virus......I don't get the connection unless the genetic proponent somehow mutated enough to be resistant to both...........sounds fishy to me....

I saw a documentary on PBS last year on the subject. The mechanism of infection appears to be the same for AIDS and the plague. I don't remember the details, but that's the reason why descendants of those immune from the plague are also immune from AIDS.

22 posted on 03/12/2005 3:05:13 PM PST by malboro_man
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To: 68skylark

Oh thanks. I thought they knew this for sure.


23 posted on 03/12/2005 3:05:26 PM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: corkoman
I think all this is a bunch of hooey. The plauge is bacterial and aids is a virus - I am not aware of bacterial resistance providing antiviral immunization.

Actually, there have been new studies saying that the 'black death' was likely not caused by bubonic and/or pneumonic plague. It moved too fast and was more in line with a hemmoraghic fever such as ebola. One such 'sweating sickness' did kill many in England. One of the many theories was that these diseases came out of the forests of Europe... which still existed at that time and were being slowly cleared. The same thing is true of Ebola and other hemorraghic fevers.

It is unlikely that rat fleas spread plague so far, wide and fast.

24 posted on 03/12/2005 3:09:20 PM PST by Bon mots
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To: Woliff

Europeans have pretty trashy genetics as people go, loads of different minor mutations in the population. Which is a good thing, as far as disease resistance goes.


25 posted on 03/12/2005 3:10:02 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: ken5050
In the middle ages, populations were not mobile.

Apparently the Bubonic plague started in China and was spread by trade to Europe.

26 posted on 03/12/2005 3:15:30 PM PST by Woliff
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To: Woliff

And I thought it had been shown that there are no genetic differences between the races. </sarcasm>


27 posted on 03/12/2005 3:17:31 PM PST by Truthsayer20
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To: tortoise
Europeans have pretty trashy genetics as people go

Which makes an awful lot of white Americans have the same code.

28 posted on 03/12/2005 3:18:13 PM PST by Woliff
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To: Woliff
In a large part of Scandinavia it's common for people to have to live cheek to jowel with rats and other rodents that carry the plague.

No doubt those folks developed a resistance to various rat borne diseases.

29 posted on 03/12/2005 3:48:20 PM PST by muawiyah (gonna' be like with the anthrax thing ~ find a guy, harass him, let the terrorists escape)
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To: cyborg

The receptors the bacteria toxins and the virus both use to access a cell are the same in these diseases. So, if you have the special gene that confers immunity, you get immunity to both the offending bacteria and the offending viruses.


30 posted on 03/12/2005 3:50:10 PM PST by muawiyah (gonna' be like with the anthrax thing ~ find a guy, harass him, let the terrorists escape)
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To: corkoman

It has nothing to do with whether the attacking organism is a virus or a bacteria ~ the question concerns the cell receptors both the virus and bacteria use to gain access to the cell. Without that receptor, neither get in.


31 posted on 03/12/2005 3:51:54 PM PST by muawiyah (gonna' be like with the anthrax thing ~ find a guy, harass him, let the terrorists escape)
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To: muawiyah
It has nothing to do with whether the attacking organism is a virus or a bacteria ~ the question concerns the cell receptors both the virus and bacteria use to gain access to the cell. Without that receptor, neither get in.

Bacteria do not need to "gain access to the cell". Most proliferate interstitially. you may be referring to the toxins generated by the bacteria - endotoxins and such.

Further to the HOOEY quotient of this baloney - most north americans are from euro descent - any such immunity would have travelled across the atlantic conferring some degree of AIDS "immunity" along with it.

No, this is all hogwash.

32 posted on 03/12/2005 4:09:56 PM PST by corkoman (Overhyped)
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To: corkoman
Hmmmm. I think you are neither reading nor listening. On my first post on this I noted that the bacterial toxins as well as the viruses used the same receptors.

There was no need to say it twice.

Regarding the immunity conferred, it also works on cholera and diptheria.

The cholera immunity is probably the most useful. If you ever had a cholera vaccination and your arm turned black you probably have this natural immunity. If it didn't, use a condom, eh!

There's some debate about what the cause of the black death in the Middle Ages might have been, of course, but there's no doubt about relative death rates. Indo-European speaking people in Europe died at anywhere from 30% to 80%. Non Indo-European speakers in Norway saw only 10% die.

These people also have some genetic differences, most centered on genes that make it easier to live in the far North, and presumably to live among a large rodent population!

If you want to see the relative death rates take a look at Tuchman's "Through a Glass Darkly". I'm sure the charts are somewhere on the internet as well.

Oh, yes, the diptheria thing ~ if you have natural immunity you probably won't die from it ~ but you'll get really sick. My paternal grandmother caught it. Most of the rest of her large family also caught it. They all lived. Most of their neighbors died. They never did have any trouble with cholera although it was prevalent in that area.

One article on the internet says this natural immunity to a variety of pathogens is highest in Sweden. My guess is that it coincides with the same areas in Sweden that have the 15% diabetes melitus rate.

That's kind of the downside ~ may be fun to drink water out of the ditch, but doggone I hate having to give up sugar in my coffee, and then there's the loss of the mashed potatoes.

33 posted on 03/12/2005 5:30:07 PM PST by muawiyah (gonna' be like with the anthrax thing ~ find a guy, harass him, let the terrorists escape)
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