I am puzzle about peach tenaicousness too!
Posted on 03/22/2005 9:24:20 AM PST by restornu
Have you sent these pictures to Rush?...he can put them on his website...a picture worth a thousand words.
You're right. This is the perfect time to use Nazi and Liberal at the same time. They proved themselves this time.....
Who says he's "discredited," besides you?
Present facts please.
LIFE AND DEATH TUG OF WAR
Terri's death wish or Michael's?
Schiavo contradicts himself in Larry King interview
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43401
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LARRY KING, HOST: We're back. And we understand that Michael Schiavo is available. So, we're going to thank Sara Dorsey, Susan Candiotti, Ed Smart, Brenda Van Dam and Mark Klaas on this tragedy today in Florida, and learning of it in Georgia. We thank them for being with us. And for their outstanding coverage. And I'm sure next week, we'll be doing more on this topic.
Right now to Dunedin, Florida. Michael Schiavo is there. He is Terri Schiavo's husband. Also with him is George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo.
Fifteen years ago, of course you know the story, Terri Schiavo collapsed when her heart temporarily stopped beating and oxygen cut off resulted in Terri suffering severe brain damage. She is now 41- years-old being cared for in a Florida hospice, kept alive by a feeding tube. That tube was removed today. You were not there, Michael?
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: No, I wasn't, Larry.
KING: Any reason?
M. SCHIAVO: I just didn't want to be in the room then.
KING: And Everyone keeps saying, Michael, I'll ask George in a minute, even if she said to you, I don't want to live like this, which is the reason you've been doing this, so what? If she's not in pain and the parents want her to be alive and you're no longer involved, so what? Why not keep her alive? M. SCHIAVO: Because this is what Terri wanted. This is her wish.
You know something, Larry, I feel like the government. What I'm here for tonight is I'm going to tell you -- I feel like the government has just trampled all over my personal life. It is uncomprehensible that a government can walk all over somebody's private judicial matter, because of their own personal feelings.
You know, I should be sitting with my wife right now. You know, her tube was removed and I should be with her. But you know, I felt the need to speak out, because it is just horrible the way that this government is acting with this case.
KING: Now they have asked, Michael, the United States Supreme Court, to sort of put a stay on this, Justice Anthony Kennedy has jurisdiction over emergency appeals. Tom DeLay said they're going to do all they can in Congress. Why is that wrong if that is their heartfelt feelings, if they're just trying to, in their opinion, preserve a life?
GEORGE FELOS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL SCHIAVO: Well, Larry, let me answer that.
KING: All right, George.
FELOS: Each and every one of us in this country has a constitutional right to refuse medical treatment they don't want. Terri exercised that right. She made her statements clear. A court has found evidence to be convincing.
And just because Tom DeLay and cohorts in Washington don't like Terri's choice, doesn't mean the federal government can make medical treatments decisions for you.
We received a subpoena today from the House of Representatives saying Terri is a witness in an investigation, force-feed her against her will. That is just an outrageous abuse of government power. And everyone in this country should be alarmed about that. They ought to be writing their Congressmen and senators, and say -- telling them, please let Terri die in peace. This is a private matter, it's been reviewed for years, the Congress just has no place in this.
KING: Hold it Michael -- on hearsay, George, thought, the only word that she said that is Michael's, right, George?
FELOS: No. That's not correct. Because she made those statements to her best friend, Joan and also to her brother-in-law. There were three witnesses and numerous statements to those witnesses over different periods of time. I don't want to be kept alive artificially. No tubes for me. I want to go when my time comes. If I ever had to be dependent upon anyone, I wouldn't want to live that way.
I mean, Terri made her wishes clear. And that's what the court found. M. SCHIAVO: And this is the problem...
KING: Why do you undergo, Michael, all that pressure. I'm back to that again. OK. It was a wish. If she's not in pain -- and by the way, she's not artificially being kept alive in that sense, she's not in a comma. She's being fed. Again, I come back to, all right. Give it up.
M. SCHIAVO: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, not about Congress, it's about Terri.
Now, I want you all to think about going through a judicial process to have your wishes granted and then the Congress and the government walking in on that because of their personal views. That's absurd!
Governor Bush, he's only doing this for votes. And I urge everybody out there, call your Congress, call your House legislators, call your House representatives in Washington and tell them to stay out of our personal business. They're going to be running everybody's life.
KING: Michael, what do you expect to happen? Congress is in recess now, they have to come back into special session. The Supreme Court could put a stay on it. What do you think is going to happen?
M. SCHIAVO: I don't think the Supreme Court is going to put a stay on it. And I hope and implore that everybody call their legislators. They have to stay out of people's personal lives. There's no place for government. Call them and tell them.
KING: Have you had any contact with the family today? This is a sad day all the way around, Michael. We know of your dispute.
M. SCHIAVO: I've had no contact with them.
KING: No contact at all?
M. SCHIAVO: No.
KING: Do you understand how they feel?
M. SCHIAVO: Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it's about Terri. And I've also said that in court. We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want...
KING: You're not -- it didn't cost you anything. This is not something where you're looking to save money?
M. SCHIAVO: No. There's no money involved. We need to move on from that question. That question has been asked me 50 million times. There is no money!
KING: George, what do you think is going to happen? FELOS: Larry, this case has been so unpredictable, it's impossible to say. But we have found a real ground swell of support, especially with that atrocious intervention by the Congress. We've gotten calls, letters, people e-mailed and a lot of people very upset about this.
I mean, it's scary to think that the government, just because they may be ideologically opposed to your medical treatment choice, has a right to overturn what you want. And people are up in arms about this and they're letting their Senators and Representatives know.
M. SCHIAVO: I want everybody to know. I want to know which Congressman, which House legislator would come down here and take Terri's place? Who's going to take her position? You won't get an answer.
KING: Michael Schiavo and George Felos. Michael Schiavo the husband, George Felos the attorney. We'll take a break and come back with Susan Vitadamo, Terri Schiavo's sister, and David Gibbs the Schindler family attorney. And then we'll have a debate on the topic. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RE[/ TP, DELAY (R) TEXAS: In my opinion, the sanctity of life overshadows the sanctity of marriage. I don't know what transpired between Terri and her husband, all I know is Terri is alive and this judge in Florida wants to pull her feeding tube and let her starve for two weeks. That is barbaric. And unless she had specifically written instructions in her hand and with her signature, I don't care what her husband says.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now in Tampa, Florida, Susanne Vitadamo. She is Terri Schiavo's sister. And David Gibbs, the Schindler family attorney.
Suzanne, where were you when they pulled the feeding plug?
SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: Larry, I was in the room prior to that. And I was asked to leave the room while they pulled Terri's feeding tube. And I waited a couple hours and went back in. I was with her from 8:30 in the morning until I left at 5:00.
KING: Why do you want your sister's wishes not listened to?
VITADAMO: Well first, we don't believe Terri had those wishes. We knew Terri, obviously, better than Michael did. Those wishes surfaced several years after a medical malpractice suit. I mean, we're talking many years later. They're hearsay with Michael and two of his family members. And they surfaced late. And we don't believe Terri ever wanted to die.
And secondly, we don't believe Terri is in the condition some doctors are saying she's in. We see Terri as a vibrant, fairly healthy, except she's severely brain damaged.
But she needs help, Larry. She hasn't had therapy since 1993. She's disabled. She needs help. She's trying to talk. And we want to get her the help she needs as a disabled woman.
KING: David, Michael's point and his attorney's point, you've lost in the Florida courts, you've lost in the United States Supreme Court. So as I ask Michael why he continues, why do you continue?
DAVID GIBBS, SCHINDLER FAMILY ATTORNEY: Because it's the right thing to do, Larry. When you look at a mother and a father, when you look at Bob and Mary Schindler and they say, David, is there anything we can do to keep our daughter, a daughter of 41 years that we love dearly. A Bob and Mary Schindler would trade places with Terri in a second if they could. They would give up their health, they would give up their energy to allow Terri to be well. They say, can you help us save our daughter.
And in a life and death case like this, Larry, everything reasonable that can be done. I mean, the Congress has recognized it, the president has recognized it, the Vatican has recognized it, religious and leaders across the nation have recognized it, Governor Bush has recognized it. This is just flat wrong. We are starving to death an innocent, disabled woman. It's unAmerican
KING: We are a nation of law.
GIBBS: Law needs to be moral. It needs to be guided by what's right.
KING: Your morality may not be my morality.
GIBBS: But I think killing a disabled woman is something that's always been against the law. I mean, going back to the ten commandments, thou shalt not kill. And we're in a situation where an innocent disabled woman is facing a barbaric death. And it's something that needs to be stopped.
KING: Suzanne, what is Michael's point if she didn't tell him that? What is his point in wanting this done? How does he gain by it, Suzanne?
VITADAMO: You know, Larry, I don't know. There's quite a bit of speculation out as to why he is so bent on killing Terri. You know, Michael has his family now. We agree that this is a family decision. But we are Terri's family. He has a fiancee and children, we're asking him to take care of his family and let us take care of ours.
KING: So, you don't -- you can't figure out a motive?
VITADAMO: As I said, there's speculation out there that I've heard running around. There might be maybe -- we have evidence that something may have happened pretty ugly the night that she collapsed.
And, you know, again, he received quite a bit of money back in '93. And it was shortly after that he remembered these so-called wishes that we honestly don't believe. So, let everybody else maybe put something together and figure out why he's doing this because we certainly, you know, -- it really doesn't make any sense.
KING: When the incident occurred, it was fully investigated, wasn't it?
VITADAMO: No.
KING: It was not?
VITADAMO: Terri -- we do not at this point know why Terri collapsed. Her heart did stop, but she did not have a heart attack. And she did not. It has not been proven that she's had an eating disorder which I've heard. So, we asked for an investigation. And to this day have not gotten one. But again, we don't know why she collapsed that night.
KING: David Gibbs, where are you legally right this minute?
GIBBS: Well, we have appeals that are up before the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, but quite honestly Larry, our strongest hope is the United States Congress. And if the law is passed on Monday, they stopped the feeding of Terri today. Terri will remain alive for at least seven and maybe as long as 30 days, death by dehydration and starvation is a long and slow process. But what we're hopeful is that the United States Congress will confer jurisdiction on Bob and Mary Schindler as parents where they will go to court and defend the rights of Terri.
KING: Can the Congress make a law about a state matter?
GIBBS: Absolutely. It's not a state matter there making a law about. Congress establishes the authority of the federal courts. And what Congress is saying, is the same thing we do for mass murders. Ted Bundy had these guarantees. We're going to extend it to innocent disabled people. It's a good, it's good bipartisan.
KING: How will -- how will the law read, since you can't use a name in the law, you can't say we the Congress keep Terri Schiavo alive, what's the law say?
GIBBS: What the law will say, is that the parents will go into federal court.
KING: This is in any case? It has to cover any case, right? You can't do a specific law?
GIBBS: Well, no, Congress can actually do a special law or general law. They have broad constitutional authority over the jurisdiction of the federal courts. But in any case, they could say is the parents or any interested party could go forward and make sure that Terri's due process rights were protected. The judge who made all these decisions, Larry,has never looked at Terri. And that's a fundamental unfairness. How can you decide whether a person is alive? How can you decide whether a person would want to live or die without ever looking at them?
And that's one of the sadness in this case.
KING: Suzanne, what do you think's going to happen?
VITADAMO: I don't know. This case is so unpredictable, Larry, it's very hard to say. We're pleading with Congress at this point to do the right thing, and to save Terri. And you know, we're hopeful.
KING: Thank you. We'll do a lot more on this. Suzanne Vitadamo and David Gibbs. Suzanne is Terri's sister. David is the Schindler family attorney.
And when we come back, John MacCarthur, the president of the Masters College, and Art Caplan, chairman of the Department of Medical Ethics, and the University of Pennsylvania will debate this issue. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHAVIO: Put your head back. Is that OK? Huh? How you feel? How do you feel? How do you feel? How do you feel? Huh?
TERRI SCHAIVO: Ugh.
MARRY SCHINDLER: What? That's my girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We realize we're just going to skim the surface here, we'll probably do a lot more on Monday.
John MacArthur is with us, president of the Masters Church, pastor of the Grace -- the Masters College rather, and paster of the Grace Community Church.
In Philadelphia, Art Kaplan, chairman of Department of Medical Ethics at the University of Pennsylvania.
John, is this a moral or legal question?
JOHN MACARTHUR, GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH: Well, I think, obviously, it's become a legal question. But I think behind that is a serious moral issue, very serious
KING: Which is?
MACARTHUR: Well, I think you've got to turn to the Revelation of Scripture and look at what God says about...
KING: That's not the Constitution. The judge has to deal with the Constitution not scripture.
MACARTHUR: Right. But I'm saying, if you ask me if it's a moral issue, then I'm going to take you to the scripture. If you ask if it's a legal issue, then we'll go to the courts. I think the Constitution has already been tested on this issue in 1990 in the case with Nancy Kuzan (ph). And the court came out and said, basically, they couldn't guarantee the right to die. And they turned it to the states. There has to be a compelling, clear reason to give someone the right to die, that I don't think is visible in this case.
KING: So, therefore the state and United States Supreme Court are wrong?
MACARTHUR: Well, I think that they're -- no they're right. I mean, in saying there has to be a clear compelling reason.
KING: They're saying that. Obviously...
MACARTHUR: But there's no clear compelling reason.
KING: Art, what's your response?
ART CAPLAN, CHMN. DEPT. OF MEDICAL ETHICS, U. PENN.: I'd say if you have this case litigated for seven years, 11 appeals courts look at -- 11 court appeals in the state of Florida, four to the Florida Supreme Court, two to the U.S. Supreme Court, one to the U.S. District Court, and they keep saying, the husband should have the right to make the decision. He hasn't divorced her. He stuck in this case and said, he wants to act on what she would want. I think it is clear that he should have the right to make this decision.
KING: But you understand, Art, when you look at her, it does look like she's not in agony. I mean, she makes facial -- right.
CAPLAN: Yes. It is true.
KING: This not a comma.
CAPLAN: Well, you know, Larry, it is true. It is true, but you have to keep something else in mind. Everyday we have situations where someone says, I'm a Christian scientists, I'm a Jehovah's Witness, I want to pray rather than take medicine to cure my cancer. And we don't force them. It's fundamental right, a liberty right to be able to control my medical care.
It doesn't matter, in one sense, whether she is completely unconscious, nearly unconscious. He's saying she wouldn't want to be in this state, few people would. If you look at it from that point of view, the core moral question is, is it the husband right, the wife's right to make the decision or is it Tom DeLay's right, Bill Frist's right, Art Caplan's right or anybody else's right to make that decision.
KING: John, you're a strong defenders of marriage, the husband, she's an adult, doesn't the husband have the right? MACARTHUR: No. First of all, there's no written documentation to prove what she would want. Secondly, there's nothing to indicate what she would want now. Thirdly, this is not about a right to die, this is about a right to live. She's not dying. And I think, it needs be made very clear. This woman is not dying. She's not any on medication or drugs. She's just being fed and given water.
KING: Let's assume that he's telling the truth with what she said. What do you owe morally, the promise to someone when you promise someone something. He promised her he would do that. What does he owe her?
MACARTHUR: I think, that's a bad promise. You've got to take that one back.
KING: Bad promise.
MACARTHUR: Yes, you've got to take that one back. You can't take a live. The Bible says, God says, I give life, I take life, I am the Lord.
KING: So, therefore, your against capital punishment?
MACARTHUR: Oh, no.
KING: Wait a minute, I give life, I take life.
MACARTHUR: Yes, but God specifically delegates that to society in the scriptures very clearly. Everything else beyond that, of course, constitutes a kind of murder.
KING: Art, is this a great moral question to you, this case?
CAPLAN: It is a tough moral question, but it's a clear moral question. I think we've carved out a right to control what happens us to when we get in that hospital. If we don't want a blood transfusion. If we don't want chemotherapy. If we don't want insulin. If we don't want a feeding tube, we have the right to say, no. If we can't, our immediate family or husband or wife should be next in line to make that decision.
I'd say this, Larry. We heard something about God in the scriptures. God doesn't need feeding tubes. God, doesn't need antibiotics. If you want to pray and hope for a miracle, that's fine. As far as the secular side goes with science and the medicine, I think every one of us should be able to say I'm not afraid that someone in Washington, some third party is going to force upon me treatment I don't want.
MACARTHUR: Yes, I think it's a phenomenally important thing that the government is weighing on this. I think they're absolutely consist, because the Disabilities Act set their path, set their course. They're being consist to say part of the greatness of America and goodness of America is we take care of poor. We take are of the people who can't take care of themselves. We don't take a life. We're outraged at what has happened to this little girl. We're outraged. There we are in the same state wondering how we feel about taking another life because there's a perceivable difference. But in terms of the heart and soul of that woman, she's never had an MRI, as far as I know, never had CAT scan. The least in this technological age, we could take a real hard look at her real cognitive character.
KING: Do you think, Art, people have a right to die?
CAPLAN: I do. I think they have that right and no one should be allowed to take it away from them. It's a right that's exercised every day in nursing homes in hospice and hospitals. We see it with Lou Gehrig's Disease. We see it with people who basicly say I don't want to prolong my cancer.
I support that right. And don't think everybody is going to choose the same way. But in this country, I would hope we can say each one of us should be able to make that decision and not have any forced coercion imposed upon us by people in Washington. It should be local, and it should be up to each individual.
KING: Would you want to live with a tube, John?
MACARTHUR: Sure. I don't want somebody to take my life, particularly if I can't speak.
KING: So, you don't have a living will?
MACARTHUR: No. I -- Look, I believe in the sanctity of life. I will live as long as I can live. I want whatever medical care I need. I don't want heroic efforts if I'm brain dead. We're not talking about that. We're talking about literally taking someone's life. In a sense, this is, like, I suppose our friend here must believe in physician assisted suicide from what he says.
KING: Art, do you?
CAPLAN: No. What I believe in is...
(CROSSTALK)
MACARTHUR: How is it different?
CAPLAN: What I believe is letting people choose what they want to have done to them.
MACARTHUR: Well, if somebody says, OK, I want you to kill me, then what do you do, kill them?
KING: What about who's life is it
(CROSSTALK)
KING: It's my life.
CAPLAN: I'd say, I can ask -- I can ask -- I was going to say, Larry, I can ask for all kinds of things in life. What I can say is, it's my body, don't you touch it. Don't you treat me. Don't come near me with your medicines if I don't want it. I have the right to be left alone.
KING: We have -- We have not heard the last of it. Thanks, John.
MACARTHUR: And she's not saying that, by the way.
KING: Not saying anything (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
MACARTHUR: No, that's right.
KING: John MacArthur, president of the Masters College, Art Caplan, chairman of the Department of Medical Ethics at the University of Pennsylvania. What a night. I'll be back in a couple of minutes, tell you about the weekend. Don't go away.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: No, I wasn't, Larry.
KING: Any reason?
M. SCHIAVO: I just didn't want to be in the room then.
Gee...could it be because you have a guilty conscience?
Three nurses were fired while Terri was being starved and dehydrated to death because they had relationships with her that involved joking around and laughing. Those three nurses and others were fired at various times because they were nice to Terri and Terri trusted and communicated with them in her own way. Terri was hidden away from the world so that the world would believe the lies. Now that she's gone, the appetite to continue killing her in absentia hasn't subsided. Evil has a large appetite.
Terri was held in a Hospice for terminal patients - even that was illegal. Everything about this was illegal. A lawless judge and a mountain of lies, throw in some crooked senators and a weak governor and you have a dead girl.
Thirty doctors filed Affidavits with Judge Greer before he chose the March 18th execution date. Thirty doctors stated that Terri was not pvs and many stated that they were willing to treat her for free. Greer ruled no new tests no matter how many other coma or pvs people start talking, Greer ruled, no to trying to feed Terri by mouth. There are doctors and lawyers believe it or not who were sickened by Terri's murder. Not all lawyers are on Greer's team. Greer should be impeached but he's got too many pals in the GOP who go way up to the White House.
It is too hard to keep up with all of these loose ends they just seem to drop into a black hole in the mind....
I just read your-
TERRI WAS MURDERED AND YOUR GOVERNMENT WAS A WILLING ACCOMPLICE, LADIES & GENTLEMEN. Don't be too quick to blame the democrats. They watched the GOP do it and both major parties are experiencing backlashes from their bases who know that Terri was MURDERED.
I feel like I am watching the Invicible Government play Good Cop/Bad Cop and we are all under surveillance!
Faithful people don't make a mockery of God!
Faithful leaders are to uplift, build and magnify good not to undermind Morality!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1394521/posts?page=406#406
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