Wahhabi Islam: A History Lesson

E-mail | Raymond Kraft

[ColdWarNavyVet_dirsup]

i'm chiming in with ExSoldier here. thanks for posting the article!

Islam is the enemy and most muslims are just as much victims as the west will be if we don't wake up.
Wahhabi is just one of the many virulent sects.

As an arab linguist/MENA expert for years, it still amazes me how our top guys are so in the pockets of the Saud tribe that they're willing to ignore reality.
shades of Hezekiah (look it up).

There are few Islamic sects outside of the main Sunni/Shia mass that shun the violence that Mohammad advocated from Medina (when in Mecca, before getting power, he played the nice guy... afterwards, forget it) such as the Bektashi group in Eastern Europe that are really syncretic movements with pagan, Christian and Islamic origins.

If you want to peruse an authority, read Dr. Mark Gabriel's book on Islam & Terrorism. The FBI, Pentagon, etc. have had him up to teach - he used to be Dr. Mustafa (before a name change) and was one of the head professors on Islamic history at Al Azhar University in Cairo.

Prior to any change to a different religion, he started asking thoughtful questions about the historical Mohammad's focus on violence and what Quran taught about it. The Mukhabbarat came and tortured him for asking...
and that's your mild form of wonderful Egyptian Islam.

Dr. Gabriel explains what they are taught in order to deceive non-Muslims while in a weak position. Or you can learn lugat ilArabiya the hard way (by submitting).

[DuncanWaring]

That's why I said "minor" point...

[ran15]

Good posts, too few realize what the challenge is, and the strength of the opponent. I hear many thinking we can just take Islam out overnight if we chose.

They wont' fight a war in a set piece battle, but it doesn't mean they are helpless. The muslim civilization is producing large numbers of young, so it has grown especially over the last few decades in sheer numbers. The muslim takeover of west Europe over hte last few years has started to become noticeable.

[Fenris6]

Read Bernard Lewis's The Crisis of Islam. Turning this into a war against all Islam is a huge mistake.

[Loud Mime]

Ever read "Sho-gun?"

Lots of violent Bhuddists there; they believed that they would come back as another life.

[Doe Eyes]

France, Germany, and Russia, have been selling these Islamic nations weapons technology at least as recently as 2002

The United States is still selling weapons to these Islamic nations.

[Mr. Lucky]

Ireland was not an ally during the Second World War.

[IncPen]

self ping

[injin]

wrong again , maybe some Japanese monks are Buddhists , but the sword wielders could not have been. A Buddhist is only one who follows the tenets of Buddhism closely. Non-killing is the first Precept . Now people can be Buddhist inspired , still
engaged in all sorts of defilements while aspiring to Buddhist
principles. These people might be termed Buddhism aspirants, but there is still a big difference. In all reality there are probably very few true , genuine Buddhists in this world
and lots of aspirants.

[Loud Mime]

It isn't what a person calls themselves, but how they act?

[ColdWarNavyVet_dirsup]

"Turning this into a war against all Islam"

That is a huge statement! I feel it is an incredible logic leap from what I posted before.

I used to translate Arabic, having learned it circa 1980.
With a number of Muslim friends, Sunni, Shia, Bektashi, etc. my intent is not to make "war against all Islam".

Although perusing your quotes of Mr Lewis may give one a feeling that - yes, the West has greviously misjudged not only Islam, but most other cultures around the world (probably because we're myopically focused on American Idol, Survivor or Trump's show) - for those of us who are informed, versed in both Arabic and Near Eastern culture, being aware of what the core tenants of Islam are is critical for our own survival.

Forget the western pundits - there are a multitude of historical and current examples. Take Lebanon and what has happened there over the last 50 years. It was normative Islam that drove out what used to be a majority Christian population and turned it into an Islamic country (by violent and terroristic means).

While not wanting to "take on all Islam" - it would be an enormous mistake for the west not to realize (peaceful muslim people notwithstanding) that the core of Islam is both terroristically hegemonistic and an historical bloodbath.

regards

[eurostudent]

I disagree... I am not a muslim, nor am I a protestant, catholic or anything else. In fact, I am not relgious because I believe that all religions cause hatred and are in many aspects based on evil against others that stand on the outside. Just consider what caused the 30 year war in Europe. It was a fight between Catholics and Protestants. Who was the evil then? Thus, Islam is not more or less evil than other religions. We have to consider, however, that all relgions created one good thing; that is the moral standards by which we live today. If we want to convert all muslims to Christianity or some other relgion, it does not make us any better from those that want to impose their believes on us. We live in a country that promotes freedom of religion... Freedom being a part of our democratic rights... If we want to promote democracy and liberty, we should not do it by forcing other people to believe in something they do not. That, by far, breaches their inalienable rights.

[eurostudent]

I also got this from a friend for whom I have tremendous respect. However, when one reads this through, and view it from a very scholarly point of view, it is filled with general statements that lacks support. There are no citations, no foot notes, no references etc. This piece is both opinion based, but also includes a whole lot of information. Because this information is not cited, nor referenced, the piece overall lacks tremendous credibility. I will also here maintain my earlier statements, that we cannot blame Islam for being a religion based on evil and hatred. As I have mentioned in an earlier posting: I am not a Muslim, nor am I a Protestant, Buddhist, Catholic etc. In fact, I am not religious because I believe religions in general have a tendency to cause war. consider the 30 year war in Europe, which was fought between Protestants and Catholics, my question remains, who was the evil then? Religion brought us the morals we live by today: don't cheat, don't steal etc. But, they are facilitated by all religions (not Christianity alone). The West should, at no point, attempt to convert or blame Islam for anything. Instead our goals should be to bring peace, democracy and freedom to those parts of the worlds that are most in need of it. This should be done without force, as forcing our own beliefs on other nationalities breaches the freedom that we are supposed to promote. In conclusion, I hope to see this piece again somewhere with a complete set of citations so that it brings more credibility to the public that it addresses.

[LauraleeBraswell]

Well neither am I. I don't adhere to any organized religion either.

But when you look at Europe- well let's take England for example. You had a state church, or the Church of England. They were inseparable. Governing officials were church officials. The fight between Protestants and Catholics was actually a political struggle. England separated from the Catholic church because at that time the Pope was almost like the King of Europe.

That's why we have the establishment clause that prevents Congress from making a Church of the United States. Religion is a private thing.

As for religion causing hatred, well did you know in every inner city area in the US there's always a Catholic school.

Now, I'm not a Christian. Try as I might I just can't believe in Jesus. But Christianity in itself civilized Europe. You look at the Jews, they were some of the most civilized people in the world. But you had to be born a Jew. And Jesus in a secular view, created a form of Judaism that included anyone and everyone.

[LauraleeBraswell]

Also, if you look at the Pagans of Ireland before Christianity. We like to look at Paganism as this sort of love mother nature religion. It wasn't. Look at Africa, you have tribal-pagan religions that dictate the practice of human sacrifice, mutilation of women's genitals, witch burnings. Well, Ireland was the same way. Only Ireland was exposed to Christianity, Africa wasn't.
And if you look at Islam, because I've studied it, it's a horrible religion. Compare Jesus to Mohammad. Jesus was a celibate Jew who preached love and peace. That's the core of Christianity. As for Mohammad he had I think over 9 wives. One was 6 years old, he consummated that marriage when she was nine. He also said it was alright for men to beat their wives.

[tet68]

The West should, at no point, attempt to convert or blame Islam for anything.

And why not pray tell?

Not 9-11 ?

Not the coming bio war on our cities?

Not a nuclear devastation that kills millions? Interesting that we can be blamed for the rumor of desicration of a koran but not the other way round. Some day, in the not too distant future, Americans will have had all they're going to take, and as they say, "Payback is a Beotch!"

[An American Patriot]

"I don't see any violent Buddists.

I HAVE

"Well, true. But when they get angry enough they just set themselves on fire."

I'VE ALSO SEEN THIS -- UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL

While stationed in Saigon, in 1966, I was driving to the Commissary in one of our jeeps one afternoon.

I turned a corner and found myself almost on top of a Buddhist Monk who had just "lit himself off."

It was like a big "whoosh" and then the flames settled down and I could actually see him.

I was close enough (probably 15 feet) that I could also smell the burning flesh--not something a person soon forgets.

All of this happened in the course of about a minute and then I noticed, "The Crowd."

There were probably about 150 onlookers/supporters/what have you.

Even though I was dressed in civies (I was covert mil intelligence) and driving a non-military jeep, it was obvious that I was an American and the look on some of their faces was not that of "peace and love."

I put the jeep in 1st gear and made a u-turn as best I could and nearly ran over several people (and at that point, I didn't care as I was scared "sh*tless") as a perhaps 40 or 50 Vietnamese gave chase.

I was armed, but with only a .38 revolver and against that size of a mob, bent on, I don't know what, was about as useless as t*ts on a bull.

I don't know if these people giving chase were Buddhist or not, (as I was not concentrating on whether any of them had robes on, but rather on making a hasty withdrawal) but they were obviously sympathetic to the Monk's cause and not at all favorable towards this "round-eye-yanki."

Just another day in Nam and a few more gray hairs were added to a 23 year old young man--growing up very fast!

[ExSoldier]

Religion brought us the morals we live by today: don't cheat, don't steal etc. But, they are facilitated by all religions (not Christianity alone). The West should, at no point, attempt to convert or blame Islam for anything. Instead our goals should be to bring peace, democracy and freedom to those parts of the worlds that are most in need of it. This should be done without force, as forcing our own beliefs on other nationalities breaches the freedom that we are supposed to promote.

eurostudent: May 14th 2005.

You stink of TROLL and I think my friends will agree. I think there is a ZOT in your future. Why did you ping ME to this? I don't know you.

[ExSoldier]

Why did you ping ME to this? I don't know you.

Well DUH! I totally forgot I POSTED this thread. That's a big OOOOPS! Okay that explains that. You still stink of troll.

[ExSoldier]

Ever read "Sho-gun?" Lots of violent Bhuddists there...

Sho-gun was written about Japan and the primary religion of Japan is Shintoism NOT Buddhism. Anyway the Samurai class regarded the Emperor as a Diety...for whom they killed or gladly be killed.