Posted on 03/29/2005 9:36:23 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
Edited on 03/29/2005 9:59:29 PM PST by Jim Robinson. [history]
I just heard on Laura Ingraham that when the priest and the Schindler's went to her on Easter Sunday to give her communion, the priest was threatened with arrest if he did so. Apparently, a compromise was reached whereby the hospice cleric had to hold the hand of the family's priest. I suppose the point of that was so that his hand could be snatched away if, God forbid, he tried to provide any more that the hospice thought appropriate. There were 3 deputies present to prevent the priest from giving communion. It is not true that MS acceded to the request of Terri's parents to have communion administered, so let's put that one to rest, if it hasn't already been. Just when I think this cannot get more sickening.If this report is true, then the Felos/Greer/Schiavo gang are among the worst that I have heard of working under color of law.
This is the shining moment of the Scientologists (Felos) and their lackeys in their ongoing war against the Catholic Church. No one will tell you that, but welcome to Clearwater and Pinellas, Florida.
Any good links on the Scientology connection? I'd be very interested in reading more about it.
Nah, that would be a skirmish. Battles are on Thursdays, Fridays, and Mondays. Campaigns are on weekends.
We don't hear much about the backgrounds of the folks who are supporting Terri's death.
According to the MSM it's perfectly okay for the "kill-Terri folks" to have their weird beliefs and their odd ways of thinking, but it's not okay for some of Terri's supporters to be Christians.
I was happy to hear Rev. Jackson reiterate that Terri is being starved and dehydrated, even though the TV personality he was talking with, had just told him some doctors would disagree with that assessment of his.
Jesse might actually find he enjoys being able to speak simply and truthfully. (Those are perks that go along with being a non-Liberal.)
Cnn says they just denied the appeal
Fox too
"most devastating set back in three decades" -- Sorry, just don't see that.
Reaction to this matter is far from settled.
You're right, it is what it is and it ain't a setback for the pro-life movement. Hardly.
If anything, it has heightened the public's awareness of the sanctity of life and the importance of protecting it at all costs. The fact that those few in power who have issued decisions (influencing this matter), which have run contrary to the pro-life position is not a fault of the position, but a reflection of the people who have decided the issue. All the more reason to get them out of positions of influence and power.
Protest non-votes? Protest against who? Those that have stood up for Terri in the Congress, or the President and/or the Governor? Why would anyone protest against them, where they have gone to the mat on this issue? And, if you think that they haven't gone to the mat on this issue, then there is no helping you - your dealing in fantasy then.
So who are you protesting against by not voting? The democrats? Really? With opponents like you, who needs supporters?
Again, I think you represent a microscopic minority of pro-lifers out there, who want to take their ball and go home.
Protest non-votes are sheer nonsense, antithetical to winning the battle for life. A complete waste of time and energy and, ultimately, inconsequential.
I shake my head constantly when I read diatribe like you right. Because, with all due respect, it is so, so far off base and so non-sensical, it really makes me shudder to think that you want to be in a position to influence the Republican Party.
If your pro-life, then there's only one place to be - the GOP. Staying home is fruitless.
Of course, I meant "write." Been a long day in court.
"....put it on the line in a perfect test of constitutional power..."
How?
If you'd stop shaking your head while you were reading, you might have noticed that I wasn't stating my own intentions, but offering analysis.
Sorry, but I agree with Peggy Noonan's take on this. Terri's death will damage the GOP more than most can even imagine. The party comes away looking weak and ineffective one a critical issue at a critical moment. No amount of reasoning you can do will convince me that this is anything but a devastating blow for the GOP and conservatism in America.
If I'm wrong, feel free to ping me in 2006.
Yes. We will look weak and ineffective because our leaders let an upstart judge basically flip off the Florida Executive and the Congress of the US. Plus we couldn't save the life of one disbled woman. This isn't the same thing as a mugging where someone calls 911 and the police just don't get there in time; this is the entire country watching what amounts to three men who for reasons that are questionable at best slowly kill by torture a disabled woman. This will impact the GOP.
No it's not "quite understandable". There's AMPLE proof that MS lied under oath about this issue more than once. There's the sworn testimony of many people who heard MS say on MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, that he didn't KNOW what Terri's wishes were. There's his sworn deposition in 1992, his testimony at the malpractice lawsuit and his testimony in 2000 that express very different sentiments. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and believe MS to be acting in the best interest of Terri regarding her wishes, his conflicting testimony should call into doubt which sentiment is the correct one. When you consider that people's recollections of specific words and events fade over time and that Michael's and that of his family actually got more specific, this also should have given Judge Greer pause.
There's also the testimony of friends and family, who's testimony has NEVER changed. Greer has even admitted he erroneously DISCOUNTED the testimony of one of Terri's friends (someone who has known her longer than Michael, I might add) because he had the time frame wrong. While he SAYS it would not have changed his ruling her testimony was very clear and convincing. It did not change with each new telling as that of MS and his family. Practically every time one of them and especially MS opened their mouth they "remembered" a new incident. In order for Greer to "understandably" believe Michael he had to deliberately put aside all of this evidence. Even a child knows that when someone's story keeps changing they are most likely lying (even if you were to believe MS was a pillar of society, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to discern that his memory was faulty, which brings his reliability into question).
This is NOT as simple as who gets Aunt Martha's silver in an estate dispute...regardless of how brain damaged Terri is, she is still a human being and an American citizen, with the same rights and guarantees as you or I. Judge Greer, as an officer of the court, has a DUTY to see those rights are upheld. The right to LIFE is the foundation of all our other rights (try as I might, I just can't find a "right to die" clause in the constitution), if there's the slightest bit of doubt as there clearly is in this case, Greer's oath should compel him to uphold this right.
However, I will grant you that it's "quite understandable" given the callous disregard of Terri's constitutional right to NOT have the government interfere in her religious beliefs, even as she lays dying that Greer had little regard for Terri. He overstepped his bounds by deciding how many times she could take communion and by whom that sacrament should be given. Were Terri's very poor excuse for a husband really concerned about her, he wouldn't even have asked for this stipulation. Another thing for the "Michael has suffered to see his wife's wishes are carried out" crowd to think long and hard about.
In addition to the how many that have already been performed? How many is enough before the Schindlers believe? I have a feeling that all the tests in the world would not be enough for them. I have a feeling that 100 de novo reviews of the case all siding with Michael Schiavo would not keep them from claiming her rights had been violated.
Well, only a CAT scan and an EEG have been done and that was quite some time ago. Despite MS's assertions (and I realize we're supposed to believe him regardless of how many times his story has changed), a swallow test as recommended by Terri's first GAL has not been done. Affidavits from 30 doctors, 17 of whom are neurologists and know more than both you and Judge Greer have stated she should have an MRI and a PET as a CAT scan is not an in depth enough test to make a judgement of PVS, especially since the science behind diagnosing PVS (which apparently is misdiagnosed often enough without the proper tests to be of concern) has improved dramatically since Terri was "diagnosed".
Dr. Mitchel Felder, board certified neurologist and attending neurologist and the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, in writing about whether Terri's forced starvation is causing her pain, wrote: " However, the cortical area of her brain which would have allowed for a cognitive comprehension of this dilemma was dysfunctional. Likewise, a massive transmission of pain signals flooded into her hindbrain and thalamus without a subsequent cognitive interpretation. In order to begin to disprove my conviction that Terri suffered during her forced starvation her doctors would have had to perform an (1) EEG (electroencephalogram) showing cortical brainwave activity (2) PET (Positron Emission Tomography) Scan to show a reduction in cerebral metabolism (3) SSEP (Somatosensory Evoked Potential) to show brainstem neurophysiologic functioning and (4) MRI scan of her brain to show anatomical disruption. I understand that either these tests had not been performed in years or were never done in the first place. Although Terri was judicially condemned to death, she met almost none of the standard Harvard criteria for brain death (emphasis mine)."
He goes on to describe one of his own supposedly hopeless cases of a man in a similar condition because of a brain tumor who, much to his surprise, went on to have 8 more very full and active years before dying. Then again, this man received treatment and therapy which definitely improves one's chances for a good quality of life. And then he writes, "Likewise, even Terri’s purported diagnosis of a persistent vegetative state (in my opinion, not properly supported by the above elucidated tests) "The occurrence of rare instances of very late recovery in adults must be acknowledged." (Adam and Victor’s Principles of Neurology, Seventh Edition, p. 370). Even more disturbing, in this standard teaching textbook of neurology, is the statement on the same page, "At no time after the onset of coma was it possible to distinguish patients who would remain in a vegetative state from those who would die." Killing Terri destroyed the hope for any possible future potential therapeutic modality such as stem cells, hyperbaric oxygenation or neurotransmitter treatment. There have been at least four confirmed cases of patients with persistent vegetative state who have recovered some neurologic functioning. Dr. Ronald Cranford, the neurologist who diagnosed Ms. Schiavo’s condition, was the attending physician in one of those cases. Dr. Cranford later admitted, "Yes, I made a mistake and to this day no one can explain these cases." Isn’t it obvious that this could be yet another "mistake"? The most basic principal in medicine, based on the Hippocratic Oath is to "do no harm." I would tend to believe that actively killing one’s patient violates this most basic principal. The entire letter can be found here on *gasp* a "pro" Terri site: http://journals.aol.com/justice1949/JUSTICEFORTERRISCHIAVO/entries/827.
And again, you not only have conflicting medical evidence: the medical records from when Terri was actively receiving therapy BEFORE MICHAEL WAS STRUCK BY THE LIGHTENING BOLT OF HIS REPRESSED MEMORY that his wife wanted to die, indicates she was making progress. Notations in the record indicate that much of this improvement was observed by Michael himself. It's also been widely acknowledged that Terri has some vision problems (though, true to form Michael has never let an opthamologist see her to perhaps provide her with corrective lenses), thus it could be that some of her supposed lack of responsiveness could be due to her not being able to see clearly. Whether, he just lost interest and grew weary of the prospect of years of therapy or he really does have something to hide, he DID deny his wife, not just therapy (and if she was making progress early on, we can only speculate about how far she would have come by now), but the most basic and humane comforts: requiring her blinds remain closed to keep sunlight out of her room, refusing to let her go outside or even leave her room, refusing to allow music to be played in her room (except, it seems, now while he sits and watches her slowly die), or even balloons, family photos, flowers, etc. Even if this supposedly "devoted" husband, determined to carry out "her" wishes, believed Terri to be PVS it's simply cruel to deny her these things when there's no compelling reason (medical or otherwise) for doing so. However, considering that several of Terri's nurses have testified in sworn affidavits, to her awareness of her surroundings and attempts to talk and follow instructions despite her lack of therapy, and have also testified to MS's unreasonable anger at the slightest hint they were providing her stimulation or comfort (one only provided her with a wash cloth to suck on, which she evidently enjoyed) it's pretty obvious that he wanted absolutely NO proof that there might actually be a responsive human being laying there.
When I see any compelling argument from the "St. Michael death to Terri" side that there was good reason for the most basic diagnostic tests weren't ordered by the court or its appointed doctors (metal shunts in her head are NOT reason enough as they can be removed as Terri's doctor told MS to do many years ago) given the conflicting testimony, EVEN IF the only words you consider are Michael's own, then I'll believe you have a valid argument. Saying she's already had an EEG and a CAT scan is a bogus argument since they were done years ago and are the most superficial in determining a diagnosis. A neurologist who doesn't order "standard" tests be performed is either grossly incompetent, doesn't have enough knowledge to be deciding what amount to life or death issues in a case like this, or are guilty of negligence (or have an agenda that more extensive tests might not justify). Nor is it enough to say her case has been reviewed by X number of judges...IT HASN'T. They've NEVER reviewed the facts of the case and including a full court in the count when only a few have reviewed and ruled it, is a false premise. I constantly hear the same tired arguments, but never see anyone address evidence provided to refute those arguments. Instead of dealing with facts presented you either repeat your same assertion or find some other thing to rant about. Granted, the judge has ruled and it appears all other options have been exhausted, but the sheer volume of abuses in this case are worthy of discussion because if we don't address these issues and correct the system so that these kinds of abuses aren't perpetrated on any other disabled person unable to speak up for themself. If we don't, it may be my child or yours who's next.
Even if you believe she should die, then lets deal with that. If we are going to become a society that decides quality of life issues for our fellow citizens, then lets deal with that honestly and face the fact that we treat criminals condemned to die and animals at the end of their lives with more humanity than we've shown Terri. We don't allow criminals or animals to slowly starve to death, but we're willing to do it here, euphemistically declaring this is her "right". Yeah, it's her right to suffer. It's her right to have to die more cruelly than a child killer or a german shepherd. Her compassionate husband is just carrying out her wishes (but hey, at least he showed her beloved cats more compassion). Then again, considering he denied her any semblance of humanity over the last few years of her life and judge greer allowed this creep to control even access to the rites of her religion, she's probably better off in Heaven, because from the minute these people walked into his courtroom Terri was doomed. I hope those of you who choose death for yourselves and your loved ones are shown more mercy than this poor woman.
Cindie
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