Mark Steyn: Why progressive Westerners never understood John Paul II

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 04/05/05 | Mark Steyn

[monkeyshine]

I like his writing, and I see he is on to something here, but I don't get this article.

What are the "two meanings of sex" he is talking about?

Sorry if I seem dense, I just don't quite see what he means.

[lainde]

Thank you! BTTTT

[maryz]

Sorry if this is a duplicate ping for anyone, but this is too good to miss!

[maryz]

What are the "two meanings of sex" he is talking about?

One meaning I'm sure you're familiar with (unless you've lived alone in a cave all your life); the other has to do with having babies.

I agree that he could have said it better (if that's not heresy in discussing Steyn, whom I love as much as anyone here does!).

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Thoughtful atheists ought to be able to recognise that, whatever one's tastes in these areas, the Pope was on to something - that abortion et al, in separating the "two meanings" of sex and leaving us free to indulge in one while ignoring the other, have severed us almost entirely and possibly irreparably from traditional impulses, such as societal survival. John Paul II championed the "splendour of truth" not because he was rigid and inflexible, but because he understood the alternative was a dead end in every sense.

How VERY true. And so many broken young women who have learned this the hard way.

[lainde]

bttt

[TomSmedley]

Should the Catholic Church then allow DIVORCED PRIESTS??? SAME SEX MARRIAGE PRIESTS???

Apples and oranges. The default setting for maximum human happiness is one man, one woman, for life. An incredibly tiny percentage of people are called to forgo the normal state of life for the sake of Christ, but an even larger percentage depart from the norm in the other direction, to embrace sin.

BTW -- several rites in communion with Rome have married priests.

[NZerFromHK]

The "best" responses these progressives could mutter was "So all those ridiculous programs implemented by gay organisations during the onset of AID's in the western world were really just a waste of time. We would have been far better off promoting abstinence rather than the use of condoms. This equation of secularists with condoms is quite frankly ridiculous.I know plenty of deeply religious people who don't have a problem with birth control or condoms. No doubt Steyn also endorses The Pope's view on the death penalty, the war on Iraq, his position on the Palestinians and his condemnation of laissez- faire capitalism."

(Taken from http://www.nzpundit.com/archives/009952.html#009952 )

Quite lame. Anyone care to refute him, either on here or on the link?

[FreedomPoster]

>>>>When a free man enjoying the blessings of a free society promotes an equivalence between real democracy and a sham, he's colluding in the great lie being perpetrated by the prison state.

>>Worthy of an essay in itself - heck, a whole book.

I'd suggest Sharansky's book The Case for Democracy does a great job of covering that theme. If you haven't read it, I strongly recommend doing so. President Bush obviously has, among others in the Administration.

Over the years, I have come to understand a critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom. In the former, the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is finding the moral clarity to see evil.

The Pope had moral clarity, in important ways, at an important time. The Left was, and is, lacking.

[7thson]

Pedophilia does not exist in the Catholic church because Priests are celibate. It exists because one of the jobs of Priests is to minister to children. That is why some Priests are pedophiles. Pedophiles gravitate to positions where they will be close to chldren - the clergy, teachers, scout leaders.

[johnb838]

Well, I will say I don't think they're talking about marrying off the pedos. But replacing them with (hopefully) non preverts.

It does beg the question about divorced priests.

[american colleen]

Same here, when I got to hs I could not fathom what the heck Humanae Vitae had to do with our modern times. Well, the Truth in HV has been made evident in spades.

As far as reading some of JPII's writings, Amazon has seven of its twenty-five current bestsellers as JPII tomes. Guess a lot of people are wondering what they missed!

Looks like he's doing his work even after his soul has left this earth.

[american colleen]

I am not necessarily irrevocably opposed to it, but I always urge people to consider the drawbacks before getting too excited.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable stance to me. I'm always shocked at the amount of Catholics who in knee jerk style, espouse a married priesthood as 'the cure' without bothering to either understand celibacy or examine some of the larger consequences we would have with a married priesthood. One problem a married priesthood wouldn't cure is the low percentage of Catholics who actually bother to attend Mass once a week.

[ninenot]

once you allow married priests, the recruitment problem should be solved, the pedophilia problem may be reduced or at least the coverup forgiven and the word of the Church may flourish, a husband and wife team can be more effective in any event

And Nirvana will descend to Earth, making all the residents pleased. There will be no rain except during the night; snow will be beautiful, never bothersome. Cold and heat will not cause suffering of people.

There's no magic bullet, and married priests is NOT a magic bullet.

[Pokey78]

Sure!

[iconoclast]

It appears that Pope St. Victor was black..

He was the first black Pope, there were two others.

[subterfuge]

Thanks Pokey. Can you put me on the Steyn ping list please?

Thanks.

subterfuge

[Ibredd]

News?

[dangus]

Catholics are very used to people presuming their doctrines are simply invented. It's the implication behind every time someone cites a bible verse at us: that somehow OUR doctrines came out of thin air.

[dangus]

Pope Victor was not the last African Pope. Pope Gelasius was, four centuries later. Apparently, the author was keen to consider that African doesn't equal black, but had reason to contend that Victor, unlike Gelasius, was black.