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To: It's me
. MA: And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd,"[14] with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment.

UUS: Christ's words "that they may be one" are thus his prayer to the Father that the Father's plan may be fully accomplished, in such a way that everyone may clearly see "what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things" ( 3:9). To believe in Christ means to desire unity; to desire unity means to desire the Church; to desire the Church means to desire the communion of grace which corresponds to the Father's plan from all eternity. Such is the meaning of Christ's prayer: "Ut unum sint".

UUS: The prayer of Christ, our one Lord, Redeemer and Master, speaks to everyone in the same way, both in the East and in the West. That prayer becomes an imperative to leave behind our divisions in order to seek and re-establish unity, as a result also of the bitter experiences of division itself.

MA: For they are of the opinion that the unity of faith and government, which is a note of the one true Church of Christ, has hardly up to the present time existed, and does not to-day exist. They consider that this unity may indeed be desired and that it may even be one day attained through the instrumentality of wills directed to a common end, but that meanwhile it can only be regarded as mere ideal.

A basic understanding of the encyclical tells one easily that JPII does not hold that the prayer of the Lord was not fulfilled in the unity of the Catholic Church. Actually, he says he does then decides that that is not what the prayer of Our Lord refers to. This is more of JPII's effort to find a way to prove universal salvation. Plus, he has the most basic non sequitur in his "Belief in Christ means to desire unity.." Unity with whom? each other? based on what? How about Belief in Christ means to desire unity with Christ, but that is not the meaning of Christ's prayer. Christ's prayer is that they The Apostles would unite and therefore form the Catholic Church. It is insulting to think that Christ's prayers are not answered.

40 posted on 04/09/2005 4:52:59 PM PDT by GerardPH
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To: GerardPH
Christ's words "that they may be one" are thus his prayer to the Father that the Father's plan may be fully accomplished

Leo XIII:

I pray . . . that they all may be one, as Thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this Divine Prayer and Supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this Prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the Unity of Divine Faith.

Exact same thing. It's clear you reject the traditional understanding of this prayer.

A basic understanding of the encyclical tells one easily that JPII does not hold that the prayer of the Lord was not fulfilled in the unity of the Catholic Church.

A basic ability to read tells you that he does.

Jesus himself, at the hour of his Passion, prayed "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21). This unity, which the Lord has bestowed on his Church and in which he wishes to embrace all people, is not something added on, but stands at the very heart of Christ's mission. (UUS 9)

This is more of JPII's effort to find a way to prove universal salvation.

JPII teaches explicitly that universal salvation is false.

Let me take this occasion to clarify a further point. I reported that Pope John Paul II, according to the English text of one of his General Audience talks, said: “Eternal damnation remains a possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it.” By now I have been able to get my hands on the official (Italian) version of the talk in the Insegnamenti di Giovanni Paolo II. It agrees with the English except that the words “whether or” are omitted. Thus the Pope cannot be cited as tending toward universalism. On the contrary, he teaches here as elsewhere that some have in fact said “no” to the divine invitation to everlasting life. (Avery Cardinal Dulles, First Things, October 2003, Reply to Correspondence)
But the problem remains. Can God, who has loved man so much, permit the man who rejects Him to be condemned to eternal torment? And yet, the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew's Gospel He speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Mt 25:46). Who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard. (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Chapter 28)

48 posted on 04/09/2005 7:58:06 PM PDT by gbcdoj (In the world you shall have distress. But have confidence. I have overcome the world. ~ John 16:33)
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