US officers requested the M113's stored in Kuwait be used in Iraq but for political reasons were refused. To many Generals careers are tied up in the Stryker program being a success.
Posted on 04/07/2005 11:22:17 AM PDT by quidnunc
The U.S. Army’s new high-speed, low-drag combat vehicle — called, dum-da-dum-dum! the Stryker! — is carrying troops all over Iraq. These government-issue vehicles are dodging improvised bombs. They’re taking the battle to the enemy. As a general named Patton once said, they’re making the other poor bastard die for his country. (Or at least making him die for that really, really rich guy shivering in a cave somewhere on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border.)
The only problem is the Stryker! — dum-da-dum-dum! — doesn’t work. Not very well, anyway.
More than 300 of the lightweight vehicles are seeing duty in Iraq. At least when they’re not up on blocks.
A classified Army report dug up by the Washington Post says a shield bolted to the vehicle for this specific conflict is so heavy that troops have to change tires and wheel assemblies several times a day. The vehicle was meant to be light, but the shield adds so much weight that the Stryker’s parts wear out on the double.
Oh, and that shield that’s causing all the trouble? It only protects troops from about half the grenades and bombs the enemy is using.
And, by the way, a few other small problems have been noted:
Displays inside the vehicles are poorly designed and most don’t work. And when the displays are working, they’re working in black and white. Which doesn’t help when somebody sends word to look out for a certain color car … . The computers inside the Strykers are too slow. That’s when they’re working. A lot of times, they either freeze up or they die from the heat. … The main weapon, a grenade launcher, won’t hit targets … . But when that grenade launcher isn’t hitting those targets, it’s still dangerous. To the squad leader. The weapon can swing dangerously in his direction … . And when troops are in full body armor, which they ought to be out on patrol, the seat belts don’t work. Which has led to deaths when the things roll over.
Oy. Doesn’t the Pentagon test these things?
Why, ahem, yes. Yes we do, say the brass. And we’re working to fix the problems.
"We’re very proud of the Stryker team," said a lieutenant colonel whose title is so long that he really should be a full bird colonel, or maybe a general. But "it hasn’t been something that’s problem-divorced."
Problem-divorced? Is that a new military way to say something ain’t perfect? Why in the name of Webster’s can’t educators, mayors, and American military officers speak English? Can’t the Army find a straight-talking sergeant somewhere who can speak plain? (Well, maybe not too plain.)
Americans who send their sons and daughters to war don’t expect perfect — excuse us, problem-divorced — vehicles. They do expect those vehicles to be the best America can provide. And the Stryker! — dum-da-dum-dum! — isn’t the best. Not yet. Not when 17 soldiers in one particular Stryker brigade have been killed in action, and another five have died in rollovers. Not when just about every day Americans have to read about another four or five or six American soldiers killed by a roadside bomb. Not when the soldiers driving those vehicles tell Army investigators that the problems are only getting worse. Not when America can do better.
As George S. Patton must have said many a time, let’s send in the (expletive) tanks. But not before we dump the (expletive) engineers/designers/whoever was responsible for producing these (expletive) trucks. Maybe we could start by changing their (expletive) name.
This is really childish. What other vehicles would this writer like us to be using? Overall, the Strykers have been popular with the troops, and effective. The 75th Ranger Regiment just requested Strykers for to use in Afghanistan -- maybe the writer would like to see that request denied.
Someone once said, "America is an odd country -- all her most brilliant military geniuses work as journalists."
They have to change wheel assemblies several times a day??? I smell BS.
This article is just plain silly. I'd take the author's point about the 5 killed in rollover accidents, but this might just be a consequence of the armored RPG cages that have made these Strykers top heavy. Probably worth the trade-off when you consider what an RPG can do to a single Stryker, Crew and mounted Infantry Squad if it were struck in the vitals by an RPG. As for the other 17 deaths the author is vague. 25 Cents says these guys were killed in foot patrols while their Strykers were performing overwatch. Hardly a vehicle defect.
I know a lot of people in Arkansas and they all fully matured to adulthood. Why on earth did this rag hire an adult with arrested development?
Personally, I still favor the M-113 upgrade option, but the Stryker is far from a lemon or a deathtrap. I just like tracks.
Bradleys are proof against RPGs. They're slower than the Strykers, though.
They are heavily armored APCs or IFVs. The Stryker is a light armored vehicle, and really is being used in a threat area above its weight class. What we need is the yet unnamed Medium Armored Vehicle that's starting production now.
The M113 is a coffin on treads. They keep trying to upgrade it, but it's stupidly easy to kill one. There is no way to make one RPG resistant.
Consequently they have to change tires on several vehicles per unit (not several times on each vehicle) per day.
The seat belts are too short to buckle around crew members while they're wearing their body armour so some soldiers have been killed in rollovers.
The Strykers were a pet project of a former Army chief of staff so they evidently were not adequately debugged prior to being introduced into combat.
I like tracks but for urban security, you can't beat a wheeled vehicle. The tracks will tear up asphalt and really make like difficult for everyone. Bradleys are expensive to make in numbers.
We could just buy a bunch of BRDMs from some cash poor former soviet country and use them instead. And grab some ZSUs 23/4 while we are at it. Put the Shilka in mode 5 (ground attack) and that'll get some terrorist attention.
More info on the Stryker: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/iav.htm
7.62x51 will go through an M113 the long way, Kevlar upgrades or no. The hull is *aluminum*.
Some were used in the major combat phase as support vehicles and personnel transport, but they have been retired from the field since they are useless for urban operations in this environment.
The problem with Stryker is NOT the Engineering: it was developed and built to specification. The problem is, the specification stank. You ask for crap, you get crap. Let's see. . .computers and electronics generate heat, but nobody thought to put cooling in place. . .when a likely battle venue was the Desert. Armor good only against bullets. . . and so the bad guys learn quickly to use RPGs and IEDs. . .
But Gen. Shinseki wanted Stryker, and wanted it fast. . .and so that's what he got. May it haunt him forever. . .
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The uparmored M113's are still pathetic. A .50 will easily ventilate any of the uparmor variants, and they still have inadequate undercarriage protection. A hand grenade can kill one.
Litany of Problems Reported with Army's Stryker Vehicle The Army's Stryker troop transport vehicle has many defects, putting troops in Iraq at unexpected risk from rocket-propelled grenades and raising questions about the vehicle's development and $11 billion cost, according to a detailed critique in a classified Army study obtained by The Washington Post.
More than 300 of the lightly armored, wheeled vehicles have been ferrying U.S. soldiers around northern Iraq since October 2003. The Army has been ebullient about the vehicle's success there, with Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, telling the House Armed Services Committee last month that "we're absolutely enthusiastic about what the Stryker has done."
Two Stryker brigades are based at Fort Lewis.
But the Army's Dec. 21 report, drawn from confidential interviews with operators of the vehicle in Iraq in the last quarter of 2004, lists a catalog of complaints about the vehicle, including design flaws, inoperable gear and maintenance problems that are "getting worse, not better." Although many soldiers in the field say they like the vehicle, the Army document, titled "Initial Impressions Report — Operations in Mosul, Iraq," makes clear that the vehicle's military performance has fallen short.
The report states, for example, that an armoring shield installed on Stryker vehicles to protect against unanticipated attacks by Iraqi insurgents using low-tech weapons works against half the grenades used to assault it. The shield, installed at a base in Kuwait, is so heavy that tire pressure must be checked three times daily. Nine tires a day are changed after failing, the report says; the Army told The Post the current figure is actually "11 tire and wheel assemblies daily."
"The additional weight significantly impacts the handling and performance during the rainy season," says the report, which was prepared for the Center for Army Lessons Learned in Fort Leavenworth, Kan. "Mud appeared to cause strain on the engine, the drive shaft and the differentials," none of which was designed to carry the added armor.
Commanders' displays aboard the vehicles are poorly designed and do not work; none of the 100 display units in Iraq are being used because of "design and functionality shortfalls," the report states. The vehicle's computers are too slow and overheat in desert temperatures or freeze up at critical moments, such as "when large units are moving at high speeds simultaneously" and overwhelm its sensors.
The main weapon system, a $157,000 grenade launcher, fails to hit targets when the vehicle is moving, contrary to its design, the report states. Its laser designator, zoom, sensors, stabilizer and rotating speed all need redesign; it does not work at night; and its console display is in black and white, although "a typical warning is to watch for a certain color automobile," the report says. Some crews removed part of the launchers because they can swivel dangerously toward the squad leader's position.
-snip-
(R. Jeffrey Smith [The Washington Post] in The Seattle Times, March 31, 2005)
To Read This Article Click Here
It looks to me like the Army brass sent the Strykers to Iraq expecting them to operate in a much less intense and hostile environment than proved to be the case.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm sure that the Stryker will evolve to be a fine combat tool - but it's fighting threats well over its weight and it needs to be withdrawn. Bradleys with rubber pads on the treads would do better, albeit slower.
Here is a different link but not as much detail.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm
They do a lot of nighttime patrols raids and it's easier to sneak up on the bad guys when they don't make a clatter that can be heard a mile away.
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