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"immigrants to Europe within a couple generations have children at the same rate as the Europeans"

I've heard that before, but I've never seen data to support it. What I do know is that the 4 largest cities in Holland now (I think), or very soon, will have immigrant (mostly Muslims) majorities in their schools. So, if the Muslims in Europe are reducing their birthrates, they seem to be taking their sweet little time about it.

Another thing to consider. Ask a Muslim when the Crusades took place, and he will say "yesterday". They have a score to settle with Europe, and they've figured out that the best way to achieve their goals is from the inside, through demographics. As far as I know, no immigrant group has ever tried to take over a country (or countries) by out-populating their hosts, but that is exactly what the Muslims of Europe are doing today. So trying to apply patterns that would fit typical immigrant groups simply cannot work here.

Finally, while it may be true that immigrants typically (usually quickly) adopt the customs of their host country - 2nd generation Muslims, at least in France, have pulled away. Their parents were more French than they are.

So, if the Muslims in Europe are reducing their birthrates, they seem to be taking their sweet little time about it.

I've seen it in some of the articles posted here decrying the muslim "takeover " of Europe. I suppose if you went to the four largest cities in America and looked at the schools you would see that they have black majorities and therefore the blacks are going to "takeover" America. As for the muslim woman who does noting but stick her butt in the air and pray except for when she is on her back spitting out a kid is probably as accurate as the Irish woman who is always on her kness praying except when she is on her back spitting out a kid. It's a nice story foll of intrigue and suspense but it just isn't going to happen.

Another thing to consider. Ask a Muslim when the Crusades took place, and he will say "yesterday".

In any generation of muslims in the western world about 10-15% turn apostate and leave islam altogether. another 40% become muslims in name only giving lip service to the Religion of Peace but essentially ignoring it as much as European "Christians" ignore their own religion. Thus it falls to the remaining 50% or so to wage the imam's war of the cradle. there is no guarantee that they will want to play the imam's reindeer games. The muslims are left with one other option if they cannot get each and every muslim woman top breed 8 kids that is immigration from allahland. However, with birthrates dropping precipitously in the main countries Europe gets its muslims from, Tunisia for instance has a birthrate of 1.99 children per woman below even the developed nations 2.1 and well below the number a developing nation needs just to maintain parity, they are going to find that there will be no reinforcements to back them up in their conquest of Europe.

I remain firm in my contention that in 2050 Europe is not going to have a problem with being swamped by immigrants but that it will have to compete with other countries for the few immigrants available.