Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Shutting Down the Highway to Internet Hell
Yahoo News / Ziff Davis: News ^ | 10 April 2005 | Larry Seltzer

Posted on 04/11/2005 10:12:57 AM PDT by ShadowAce

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-120 next last
To: Squawk 8888

Umm Are you sure about that here is my connection to a mail server

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP 10.3.8.86:2591 10.2.1.20:25 ESTABLISHED


61 posted on 04/11/2005 12:15:32 PM PDT by N3WBI3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: N3WBI3

Yep- that connection shows outbound on 2591 to a host that is listening on 25. The idea of the block is to disallow connections to servers listening on 25.


62 posted on 04/11/2005 12:18:11 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888
Ok I read your post wrong, thought you were saying send and receive on 25, this is not that case...

If the spam is being sent by bots closing down 25 wont do anything becuase they dont send on that port..

63 posted on 04/11/2005 12:21:32 PM PDT by N3WBI3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Actually it's simpler than that- just configure your server to route everything to the ISP's server just as most mail clients do. The problem is that it would not take much time at all for the spammers to get around the block- all they need to do is get the spambot to route all the traffic through the ISP. The SMTP server address can be hacked from the registry. The net result is an exponential increase in the workload on the ISPs' servers with no significant reduction in spam volume.


64 posted on 04/11/2005 12:22:35 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: TheForceOfOne
Fight fire with fire, spam the spammers until their servers blow. Just create a software program that sends the spam back to the spammer 1000 fold for each spam received.

This would quite quickly get your ID terminated... read your AUP (acceptable use policy).

65 posted on 04/11/2005 12:22:59 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: N3WBI3

Well, perhaps it wasn't worded too clearly. Any firewall, including the ISP's, can be configured to block traffic that is *calling* any port. So the idea is to block traffic that is calling on port 25 outside the ISP's own network, forcing users to route all messages through the ISP's server.


66 posted on 04/11/2005 12:25:32 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: N3WBI3
1) Spam is almost never traceable, it usually comes from a bunk address

Sorry, you're incorrect: mailing headers which contain hostname/IP address are appended to every piece of email at every hop.

The most you can do here is to use a broken system and insert additional, incorrect information before passing along, but the host involved would have been tagged as broken by most RBLs within minutes.

67 posted on 04/11/2005 12:27:32 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888

If you run it through the ISP's mail server as client access you may run into mail quota checks, and it's going to interfere with forging the From: address and the headers.


68 posted on 04/11/2005 12:28:59 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

It's not even that complicated. I have SBC DSL and run my own Sendmail server for my own use. When SBC started blocking 25, I simply had to fill out a web form to get it unblocked. Today I still run my own mailserver on 25 as if the blocking didn't even exist...no smarthost required.


69 posted on 04/11/2005 12:36:21 PM PDT by Arthalion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Yep, there's no free lunch. To deal with spambots it would make more sense for ISPs to monitor the volume of SMTP traffic and alert the user if there's a spike (perhaps enforced by a block if it continues).

I just found a useful feature in McAfee (I just deployed it here as a replacement for Symantec). You can configure the antivirus client to whitelist the programs that can use port 25, so the only way a trojan can turn your machine into a spambot would be to replace your existing mail client or hack the whitelist. ZoneAlarm has been using that technique for all internet traffic.


70 posted on 04/11/2005 12:36:53 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Arthalion

If the ISP makes unblocking the port that easy then I'd have no problem with it. My worst nightmare would be having to call the "Your call is important to us" recording to get in re-opened.


71 posted on 04/11/2005 12:38:32 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Bush2000
The solution requires a number of facets: Introduce an authentication system which requires identities to be globally verifiable...

PKI (public key infrastructure) is intended to encrypt / authenticate email from / to *individuals* not systems and very few places have it running on anything other than a rudimentary basis due to the cost and complexity involved.

The large players could implement Certs for their mail relays, but given the difficulty most locations have with simply running a virus scan on an infected PC, this would also create lots of delivery issues.

72 posted on 04/11/2005 12:39:08 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: N3WBI3
And they would be denied until they do.

To my knowledge, the only ISP doing this is AOL and -- to be catty -- a lot of places don't get excited if email for AOL is bounced...

That is, this might as easily be considered a feature :)

73 posted on 04/11/2005 12:42:35 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888
Mail is both sent and received via port 25.

Email is received on port 25 -- not sent. You can verify, if you wish, by doing a netstat and checking the ports in use.

74 posted on 04/11/2005 12:45:56 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888

Ugh, I agree, especially considering the low quality Indian Tier One support SBC utilizes. Unblocking the port was simple enough, and they had it done three hours after I requested it. It really wasn't an issue.

The only problem I had with it was the way SBC promoted it to users. I didn't know that they'd blocked 25 until I noticed that none of my domains had received any emails for a few days. A quick post to broadbandreports.com revealed the reason, but SBC should have done a better job letting its users know what was about to happen. An EMAIL would have been nice!


75 posted on 04/11/2005 12:47:10 PM PDT by Arthalion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888

It's useful to have, but by your own account 75% accepted email without an in-addr.


76 posted on 04/11/2005 12:47:15 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888
Yep, there's no free lunch. To deal with spambots it would make more sense for ISPs to monitor the volume of SMTP traffic and alert the user if there's a spike (perhaps enforced by a block if it continues).

Most of the spambots are short-lived on any given machine anyway. All it takes is one recipient that can read headers and he's busted.

77 posted on 04/11/2005 12:47:53 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: dfrussell
The large players could implement Certs for their mail relays, but given the difficulty most locations have with simply running a virus scan on an infected PC, this would also create lots of delivery issues.

Just getting everyone to implement SPF records, and then require a valid SPF resolution before accepting the mail would fix the spambots.

78 posted on 04/11/2005 12:50:01 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Squawk 8888
"Most ISPs don't do a reverse lookup but a significant number of corporate mail systems do, which I found out after about 25% of the outbound traffic got hung up in my server."

Yup, you're right. If you don't have that rDNS entry then as time goes by fewer and fewer messsages will be delivered.
79 posted on 04/11/2005 12:50:01 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1366853/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
Incoming mail is received on port 25. Mail can be sent on any port. 110 and 143 are for POP and IMAP, respectively, which are client applications. IMHO.

You are partially correct. Email is received on port 25, but POP3 and IMAP are used by clients to read email from a hub etc.

Port 25 (SMTP) is generally server to server and POP3/IMAP is client -> server.

80 posted on 04/11/2005 12:53:15 PM PDT by dfrussell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson