FBI Waited to Check Out Tip on Nichols - OKC

AP ^ | April 14, 2005

[sdpatriot]

>> but they finally got serious investigations of Ruby Ridge and Waco.<<<

you joke yes?
the FEDs just paid Randy Weaver and his daughters off instead of going to court.... and no one was reprimanded at all. unless you call a short vacation with full pay a reprimand. and Waco "investigation" was a joke. all it consisted of was continuing to paint the Branch Davidians as nuts and law breakers.

i LOL at these public appeasement "investigations"... they are a JOKE.

but good for this reporter for keeping on.. hope there isn't another arkancide like the Ok City PO who was found shot to death when he began investigating..
she's a brave gal..

[nw_arizona_granny]

Ping

(the rest of the story).

[eno_]

"Lie detectors" are pure voodoo.

"Drug dogs" are random probable cause generators. Ouija boards would work just about as well.

Even fingerprints are less reliable than most people think.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Compared to what had gone before they were "serious investigations."

They did expose some deadly shenanigans and the public did hear government employees tell Congress that they had the authority to kill civilians even if the civilians did not present an immediate threat.

That is my memory.

I believe that it is pretty well accepted that the Ruby Ridge orders were, shoot any adult carrying a gun.

Before Congress was forced to hold "serious investigations" many of us believed that Special Agent Efrem Zimbalist Jr. was in charge just like the MSM and government told us.

The OKC hearings (if they happen) will reach into every nook and cranny of Washington, especially the Clinton White House. I think that we will see just how dangerous the Demicans (a.k.a., Republicrats) are -- not for the OKC cover up but for how far they will go to destroy the hearings.

[Mo1]

for later read

[sdpatriot]

i agree with you that these "investigations" bring the attention of the public back on the case... but only slightly, most people never hear of it.


>>I believe that it is pretty well accepted that the Ruby Ridge orders were, shoot any adult carrying a gun.<<

do you mean this came out in the investigation? because Vicki Weaver was only holding her baby when half her head was blown off by a fed sniper in front of her daughters. so if what you say is true... why wasn't someone held accountable? what good does the investigation do when they find the feds did wrong and nothing is done?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

As I recall it's worse than no one did anything about the shooting death of Mrs. Weaver beyond civil monetary awards. The state of Idaho attempted to prosecute the killer.

The feds stopped them. He of course later showed up at Waco. Who knows where else he's lurked. By now he's collecting his pension and raking in a six-figure income working for a beltway bandit, still armed I bet.

I wish I could find the article reference someone posted a few months ago. In the article a retiring government employee was receiving an "honorary agent" award from one of the federal law enforcement agencies.

The retiring employee made successful court appearances arguing that federal employees do indeed have the right to kill citizens without there being an immediate threat.

The article confirms my memory of the same testimony before hearings on Ruby Ridge and Waco.

So why are there so many real enemies of American running around and neighborhood watch groups are pratically being Davidianized? I wonder.

[KC_for_Freedom]

I know these things because my government tells me they are true.

I can see lots of reasons for the Clinton's to keep this quiet. 9-11 was clearly bad for the Democrats, and one could argue that the GOP took the ball and ran with it. But why is Bush not opening this can of worms? He does not share the blame for the Clinton cover up, unless he keeps covering it up. Only answer that makes any sense is that the "evil genius" Karl Rove is going to let the pot boil over just before the next election. (This or something to keep Hilary from the next election.)

[sdpatriot]

i know what you mean.. i "wonder" too..


if you find that article could you let me know? i know this is policy because they DO IT and are rewarded for it within the agencies... but i would like to have it in writing for the nay-sayers. thanks

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Found it! I have been meaning to do this for some time. It's.. uh, informative.

see, http://www.fff.org/freedom/1101g.asp

I am not familar with www.fff.org but have no reason to doubt their veracity

There are several google hits for, Seth Waxman Horiuchi

see also,

http://www.law.virginia.edu/home2002/html/news/2001_02/waxman.htm

though there appears to be some factual errors about Ruby Ridge I have to assume the law school knows someting about the shenanigans of the legal process.

Lots of interesting comments at the other sites, for example

http://www.gunowners.org/op0112.htm

I've not read them all.

As you can see there is nothing specific that talks about killing citizens but "federal law-enforcement officials are privileged to do what would otherwise be unlawful if done by a private citizen." These agents can be immune from prosecution. It's entirely up to the federal government employees to decide.

Here's my original reply posting (please forgive the joke at the end if it offends):

Here is something from the link that reminded me of the Congressional hearings (mid 1990s). I swear I remember one of the federal agents telling the committee that they (federal agents) did not have to be in imminent danger to kill a citizen. This proves that some government employees actually believe that, IMO.

Seth Waxman, U.S. solicitor general, personally argued the case before the judges, appearing as a friend of the court in behalf of Horiuchi. Waxman sought to put the issue to rest by informing judges that “federal law-enforcement officials are privileged to do what would otherwise be unlawful if done by a private citizen. It's a fundamental function of our government.” (Waxman’s devotion to principle was rewarded when, shortly after leaving office, he was made an honorary agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.)

It's a very serious matter and I feel a twinge of shame as I recall the very old joke about the baby that swallowed a bullet and the doctor's advice was castor oil then "don't point that baby at noooobody." It's a strech but maybe the government employee felt threatened -- or maybe the rules of engagement were shoot any adult that moved.

[sdpatriot]

thanks for those links and information. i appreciate it.
i read at gunowners off and on..

i will certainly check them all out.

>>>There are several google hits for, Seth Waxman Horiuchi <<<

NO DOUBT! may he rot in H E double L

thanks again..

[Simo Hayha]

The FBI lab continues to examine the materials for fingerprints and other clues that might show where the explosives originated and who may have had them before they got into Nichols' home

I wonder if the testing is over with and I wonder if the tests confirmed Nichols claim that it was provided by FBI informant Roger Moore (and, hence, the FBI itself.)?

[Simo Hayha]

While the debate rages about phones and taps and "the wall" that apparently existed, perhaps we should question whether or not "the wall" is still in place, if only as it always stood--in the sense that one group of authorities doesn't want its toes stepped upon, etc.

This article, I believe, helps illustrate the wall. Here we have an instance of the FBI informed of a bomb, or bomb-making materials packaged and waiting to be found. They were told about it.

What was their reaction? They used technology, a lie-detector, to question the reliability of the source. Did they call the local authorities and inform them that a bomb was hidden beneath a residence? I don't know. Had they, I suspect the bomb would have been discovered much earlier. So did any information sharing happen in this instance?

I hazard to suggest that information sharing wasn't at the top of their list.

Just a thought.