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Disabled fear Schiavo death may hasten euthanasia
Florida Baptist Witness ^ | April 21, 2005 | TOM STRODE

Posted on 04/22/2005 10:18:32 AM PDT by amdgmary

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To: timtoews5292004

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God...it is a more fearful thing to ASK to be fallen into his hands...but fall we must...if there is any chance that we may save our-selves!


41 posted on 04/22/2005 11:26:53 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Slyfox

None---

Same as the nurse how wasn't bolusing a tube feeding at night on a 20 something man in a 'vegetative' state. He was losing weight hand over fist and I was pulling my hair out, upping the volume, changing the feeding etc.

It wasn't until the Central Supply manager was doing a pick-up sweep of some back cabinets that she found about a month's worth of cans that weren't used.


42 posted on 04/22/2005 11:29:33 AM PDT by najida (I wish I had Tina Turner's legs, Ann Coulter's brains and Paris Hilton's credit cards.)
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To: najida

>you'd be AMAZED at the number of eldery who want full codes! Which is their right. We assume they would all want DNR's, but that isn't the case

(I'm sorry, but I can't figure out how to make italics in this post editing window on internet explorer. I copied it to word and made it italics and cut and pasted it but it still doesn't look italicized)

I'm amazed that we can breeze by that statement -- "We assume they would all want DNRS". That is the problem. We assume people don't want to live. We should assume people WANT to live unless they tell us otherwise.

You shouldn't be in danger of having your life ended because you didn't take the time to say you wanted to keep living.


43 posted on 04/22/2005 11:31:59 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT (http://spaces.msn.com/members/criticallythinking)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
See, there is are economic and emotional reasons why someone would be biased toward ending the life of a person who can't protect themselves. The only thing protecting them is laws in the books, OR the general societal bias toward life. Now we've lost the societal bias, it has leaned toward "killing" as the "humane" thing to do. So in fact those who argued for Terri's life were called the mean-spirited ones, while those who called for her death were the compassionate ones.

You've summarized it nicely. The culture of death has succeeded in turning upside down a fundamental principle which has guided our laws and framed our notions of civilized society. And that is, that life is to be valued, even if it is under difficult circumstances, over death. Our assumption has been that rational beings would choose to remain alive rather than be put to death. Now the assumption has been reversed. That presents a real danger, because in cases where there is doubt, the default position becomes "kill the person" rather than "let the person live". Time was in this country that you didn't need a piece of paper to guarantee your right to live (as flimsy as that itself is, as others have ably pointed out), it was just assumed that you had that right. Now, the assumption is that you don't have the right to live absent that piece of paper, and someone, a relative, a judge, the state, or maybe a "an interested party", can decide, ostensibly "on your behalf" or "for your own good", that you should be killed.

44 posted on 04/22/2005 11:33:40 AM PDT by chimera
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To: expatguy
This is not something that could happen in the future. It is happening in our country now.

I had a conversation with the daughter of a Jewish doctor who escaped Germany in 1937. She was apalled by the fact that all of her family who stayed behind in Germany died in the concentration camps. However, when we spoke about Terri Schiavo, she could not understand any connection between what happened to Terri and what happened to her own family. There is no difference between what happened then and what is happening now. I am flabbergasted by the reasoning of such people. If I hear "quality of life" one more time...

45 posted on 04/22/2005 11:35:45 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: CharlesWayneCT

THAT is the chance in focus I'm seeing in Long Term Care and the attitude towards the elderly.

The assumption that they are waiting on death, instead of living their last years.


46 posted on 04/22/2005 11:35:57 AM PDT by najida (I wish I had Tina Turner's legs, Ann Coulter's brains and Paris Hilton's credit cards.)
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To: Slyfox

Chilling is it not.


47 posted on 04/22/2005 11:37:36 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: najida

I'm really not surprised alot of elderly don't want a dnr. My Mom didn't (she wasn't elderly but she had terminal kidney cancer).
I'm not sure I would either, as I don't really think I want a stranger making that decision at that moment. I used to think the whole medical profession was all about compassion, but after reading alot of posts by nurses on internet sites during the Terri Schiavo case, I have changed my mind.
susie


48 posted on 04/22/2005 11:54:20 AM PDT by brytlea (Yes, there are Republican teachers...)
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To: k2blader
When there are pro-euthanasia rumblings even from "conservatives" these days, the time is not very far off.

Someone that is pro-euthanasia is NOT a conservative.

49 posted on 04/22/2005 11:55:46 AM PDT by Netizen (USA - Land of the free, home of the brave, where the handicapped are legally starved and dehydrated!)
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To: jackibutterfly

I'm sorry, I was afraid I got the year wrong. Thank you for the correction (wonder if someone's going to stop feeding me because my memory is going!?)
susie


50 posted on 04/22/2005 11:58:13 AM PDT by brytlea (Yes, there are Republican teachers...)
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To: najida
Roxanol is morphine sulphate. Are they overdosing those people on purpose?

If I had to work in such a depressing atmosphere, The FBI would have my interview on record by the weekend.

51 posted on 04/22/2005 12:16:58 PM PDT by BobS
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To: amdgmary

It will.

They no longer have to worry about "if".

Now they only have to worry about "when".


52 posted on 04/22/2005 12:18:53 PM PDT by sport
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To: BobS

That is why I changed jobs.

My patients minds may be ill, but their bodies are OK. And they make me smile.

For some reason, Roxanol is the area Hospice morphine of choice....and it seems to be really rough on those with any respiratory or cardiac weakness.


53 posted on 04/22/2005 12:20:52 PM PDT by najida (I wish I had Tina Turner's legs, Ann Coulter's brains and Paris Hilton's credit cards.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
The law of the United States should be that you only get put to death if you specifically requested it

I understand your intent, but I disagree. The right to Life is inalienable, which means you cannot sell them, lose them, loan them, trade them, or give them away, and the government cannot take them from you. They are permanent and unchanging. However, you can forfeit them through criminal wrongdoing.

That means the government has no authority or duty to oblige your wish to be put to death in the absence of some criminal wrongdoing on your part simply because you request it

It is very dangerous, (besides being immoral and illegal under natural rights) to give power to probate judges and doctors that allows them to kill people.

Cordially,

54 posted on 04/22/2005 12:27:02 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: najida

You have a big heart. If I ever end up in your care after an accident or something, codiene gives me chest pain, and a single hydrocodone pill gives me big poopy problems. My body rejects opiates other than dilaudid when I broke my leg. And that felt creepy. Find something else.


55 posted on 04/22/2005 12:57:37 PM PDT by BobS
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To: Diamond
I understand your intent, but I disagree. The right to Life is inalienable, which means you cannot sell them, lose them, loan them, trade them, or give them away, and the government cannot take them from you. They are permanent and unchanging. However, you can forfeit them through criminal wrongdoing.

That means the government has no authority or duty to oblige your wish to be put to death in the absence of some criminal wrongdoing on your part simply because you request it

It is very dangerous, (besides being immoral and illegal under natural rights) to give power to probate judges and doctors that allows them to kill people.

Our system of government was founded on the concept of inalienable rights. The Founders (correctly) understood that the function of a government by the people and for the people was to safeguard (i.e., secure) those rights, not grant them. What the Schiavo case has presented us with is the specter of a branch of the government placing itself in a position of being an arbiter of what had been heretofore an inalienable right (the right of an innocent individual to live). With that, the concept of inalienable rights has been abrogated. I really don't understand why people fail to grasp the significance of that. Because once we turn over what had been an inalienable right to government dispensation, it is not longer inalienable. What the government grants, it can take away.

With the court-ordered killing of an innocent person, Terri Schindler Schiavo, we have eroded, perhaps fatally, a fundamental underpinning of our system of justice. In such a circumstance, the Republic no longer functions in the manner envisioned by the Founders.

56 posted on 04/22/2005 1:16:56 PM PDT by chimera
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To: amdgmary
FREEPERS, THIS IS WHY WE ARE STILL HERE...Look what powerful people did to Terri, an American:

The Ithacan, an opinion piece.

By Kevin O’Neill ’05

Guest writer

April 07, 2005

“The right to die” and “dying with dignity” are catchphrases that were thrown around quite frequently regarding the removal of a feeding tube from Terri Schiavo, a woman who suffered brain damage 15 years ago. I sincerely doubt most of those people had any idea what they were saying.

How dignified do people consider starva-tion? When confronted with commercials ex-posing the terrible food shortage in many third world countries, “dying with dignity” is not a phrase that jumps to most people’s lips. Perhaps ignorance of what physically happens during starvation and dehydration shields some from considering the gravity of this case.

Medical doctor and ethicist David Stevens has described the process thus: the mouth dries out and the tongue becomes swollen and cracked. The lips become parched and cracked as a thick coating begins to cake the mouth and lips. The eyes sink back into the skull while the cheeks hollow and the lining of the nose begins to crack, potentially causing nosebleeds. The skin turns dry and scaly and hangs loose on the bones. Urine decreases, becoming highly concentrated, and eventually stops completely.

Then, the stomach lining dries out, causing vomiting and dry heaves. Brain cells dry out, too, causing convulsions. The respiratory tract dries out and thick secretions develop, a process that may plug the lungs and airways. Eventually, after the body suffers all these effects, all the major organs fail, including the lungs, heart and brain.

This is an extremely warped idea of “dignity.” It is illegal in the state of Florida, where Terri lived, to put a dog down this way, but for an innocent woman this death sentence will suffice. George Greer, the judge hearing this case has displayed shocking determination to see Terri die. On February 25, he stated that he would only hear motions relating to the “death process” and has denied, without hearing arguments or evidence, the Schindlers’ motion to divorce Terri from Michael and denied, without hearing arguments or evidence, the Schindlers’ motion to remove Michael as guardian.

He also heard, but did not rule on, arguments that Terri should be fed by mouth once the feeding tube was removed and many more very relevant points relating to this case.

Judge Greer skirted and ignored the law more times during this whole fiasco than are permissible to relate in polite company.

What happened in Florida last week was nothing short of murder, and to add further insult to injury, the judge denied the Schindlers’ request that Terri be allowed to receive Viaticum (Holy Communion for the dying) by mouth.

Yes, an American judge denied a citizen the opportunity to practice her religion (he also denied her “unalienable right to life,” but the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are not the rules judges play by these days).

The president has said it is always best to err on the side of life, but what happened to Terri Schiavo last week was no mistake. The unjust rulings of Judge Greer were cold, obsessively calculated, lethally relentless and sadly indicative of the attitudes society has adopted toward the weak.

FV SAYS: If you want to, please copy/paste & email the above to your US Senators and House Members and demand an investigation of ALL THE JUDGES in the SCHIAVO CASES and an investigation of the NINE SENATORS IN TALLAHASSEE who voted against Terri. Who lobbied them so they would vote against her?

57 posted on 04/22/2005 1:25:03 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.theempirejournal.com Demand the Impeachment of Judge Greer...No More!!!!)
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To: ladyjane

Unfortunately, Mae [what's her name] and Terry Schiavo
WAITED until it was too late. Evidently, this is
becoming a hyper situation for some people. It's possible
that a Living WIll document should be made part of the wedding nuptuals...and I'm not kidding! If the marriage license is a valid document authorizing the law to grant the living spouse everything under the deceased's ownership, including power of attorney, then why not this "will" granting automatic authority to plug-pulling?

Roxinal, morphine, etc. what matters the name. Doctors
authorize hospice agents to administer these "killing"
drugs all the time. As I've said here before, my
mother was getting morphine injections (at MY OWN HANDS)
under the doctor's say-so back in 1952. She had terminal
cancer, wanted to die at home (ala Jackie Kennedy). The
doctor told me she actually died of heart failure...due to the morphine dosages. In other words, I literally killed my own mother? The practice is still going on. Am I
sorry she died sooner than later that way? No...she was at peace. Only someone who has bathed, changed, tried to feed the screaming animal that cancer's agonizing pain reduces a human to can fathom the horror of the situation. Her
84 pound body mustered extreme physical strength and became a threat to all who came near the bed. That horrible creature was NOT my mother.

And BTW, she was cremated...as per her instructions early on when she was lucid.


58 posted on 04/22/2005 1:33:40 PM PDT by Grendel9
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To: Slyfox

The difference is that doctors have a "license to kill."
Nurses don't. So what' the difference between all
doctors who prescribe morphine/roxanol and Dr. Kavorkian?
Only locale. The doctor has the sanctity of the hospice/
hospital. Dr. Kavorkian stupidly practiced his assisted
suicide inside a truck!


59 posted on 04/22/2005 1:39:05 PM PDT by Grendel9
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To: amdgmary

Breaking news crawler on headline news cnn: Gov. Jeb Bush is going to represent the U.S. at the new Pope's Inauguration. (this makes my skin crawl).


60 posted on 04/22/2005 2:01:42 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.theempirejournal.com Demand the Impeachment of Judge Greer...No More!!!!)
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