Thirty Years at 300 Millimeters (Saigon April 30, 1975)

NY Times ^ | April 29, 2005 | HUBERT VAN ES

[neverdem]

You can see one of the pics, I believe, via Google Images on the second row on the right here.

The pics in this Times' guest OpEd column are from a restricted source, i.e. Bettman — Corbis. If you want to see the rest of them, but don't want to register with the Times, use bugmenot.com .

[swilhelm73]

The soldiers, most of them quite young, were remarkably friendly and happy to pose for pictures. It was a weird feeling to come face to face with the "enemy," and I imagine that was how they felt too.

Hmm, I wonder how a modern Euro-reporter would word this in regards to say Iraq. I'm guessing enemy, with or without scare quotes would not make it.

[AgThorn]

[neverdem]

I posted the story for two reasons. I thought some Vietnam Veterans might appreciate the story. Those who would recognize the roof of the embassy would be a relatively small percentage of those who served in South Vietnam. The story also explains how historical errors get propagated, and how hard they are to correct.

I'm sorry if it brings back any bad memories. The story brings back bad memories to me.

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[Squantos]

The day that the passenger capacity of the C130 was proven wrong........

[risk]

Thanks. It's obvious that the "liberation" of Saigon wasn't welcome by most Vietnamese.

[neverdem]

The day that the passenger capacity of the C130 was proven wrong........

LOL! Yeah, and eight on a slick!

[risk]

It would do freedom-loving Iraqis well to study this story.

[Squantos]

Ya know it's funny that yer moniker is "risk" with regards to this thread. I am of the opinion that polidiots were playing just that game with us as the game pieces.......

Stay safe !!

[risk]

It's a moniker I often regret choosing, but puns keep coming. After reading the Rescorla story, I realized that a lot of you Vietnam vets were more patriotic than the WWII variety "save the world or else" draftees and volunteers. A lot of you guys knew you were just game pieces, but you went (or stayed after figuring it out) anyway. On some level, it must have amazed the VC's handlers back in Moscow. It put meaning back into the phrase "Come and Take Them." I don't put much stock in the JBS, but Susan Huck shreds the American elite in her Vietnam Falls: it's time to establish responsibility article. I see the JBS has taken it offline. If Halberstam skewers the elite from the left in Best and the Brightest, Huck skewers them there from the far right. I'm sure that they deserve both. Of course their direct academic descendants are the cultural relativists, Marxist feminists, and post-structuralists of today. I just shake my head when I realize that McNamara basically killed our missile defense program until President Reagan was elected, but I digress.

[neverdem]

It would do freedom-loving Iraqis well to study this story.

That point can't be made too strongly for all concerned. Unless feeling threatened from overseas, most Americans could give a flying fart about the rest of the world. International polls want to ascribe all the ills of the world to American capitalism. I think there's a reason why the feeling is mutual.

[neverdem]

Ya know it's funny that yer moniker is "risk" with regards to this thread. I am of the opinion that polidiots were playing just that game with us as the game pieces.......

I'm persuaded that LBJ escalated our involvement in Vietnam because he thought that was required to play "RISK" in Southeast Asia in order to get the "GREAT SOCIETY" passed in Congress. He thought he could parlay with the VC and the commies in North Vietnam. Besides being fooled by those commies, LBJ was unable to appreciate the geographical difference between fighting a war on the Korean Peninsula, and a war in Vietnam with the "Ho Chi Minh Trail" going through Laos and Cambodia.

Check out Presidential Historian Michael Beschloss. Here's a link.

[leadpenny]

I believe LBJ used the months and years after Nov 22, 1963 to escalate the conflict in Vietnam and to push Civil Rights legislation so Americans wouldn't 'look behind the curtain' to see what was to become the Warren Commission Report.

[angkor]

I knew the Pittman story before, it's detailed in Decent Interval by Frank Snepp. However, nice to have the first-hand account from Van Es himself.

More recently I've spent hours walking around Saigon trying to find the actual building. It's difficult because all the street names have been changed (is Tu Do Street now Dong Khoi aka Rue Catinat?).

Over the years I've searched the Web for hours trying to find a good streetmap of downtown Saigon circa 1975. Anyone know where to get one?

Of equal interest is a period map of the Tan San Nhut area from Tan Binh circle and to the northeast. I think that was all MACV territory during the war.

[Khurkris]

bump

[commonasdirt]

Apologies are not necessary. To be reminded of those days is a good thing as it may help to prevent a reneactment of it in the future. Well done.

[G.Mason]

" ... Unless feeling threatened from overseas, most Americans could give a flying fart about the rest of the world. International polls want to ascribe all the ills of the world to American capitalism. I think there's a reason why the feeling is mutual."

[Casloy]

"I'm sorry if it brings back any bad memories. The story brings back bad memories to me."

I had been back for 5 years when Saigon fell. It was a horrible feeling to watch that on tv thinking about all the men who died for no reason whatsoever, and the seeminly wasted year of my life. It was a horrible, horrible feeling. The only thing close to it was watching the Twin Towers collapse, but at least that was a call to arms. I just hope we don't repeat ourselves in the war on terrorism. There is so much more at stake.

[OESY]

A shameful moment as America abandons its Vietnamese allies, consigning
millions in Southeast Asia to death -- in the jungles and on the open seas --
as our "Vietnam Legacy" marked a retreat from world problems
until Reagan reinvigorated our courage to stand up to tyrants