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Now evolving in biology classes: a testier climate - students question evolution
Christian Science Monitor ^ | May 3, 2005 | G. Jeffrey MacDonald

Posted on 05/03/2005 2:12:35 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: MacDorcha
"Why" is just as valid as "How", yet science only addresses "How."

Answer enough How questions and you get to a lot of Why questions.

Disease, birth defects, storms, drought, earthquakes, floods, meteorites, etc. All of these have at one time been Why questions, and are now How questions.

101 posted on 05/03/2005 9:23:25 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: cookcounty
And why can't the teachers pass the pop quiz?

Because Creationists are not capable of comprehending the answers.

102 posted on 05/03/2005 9:26:18 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Thank your God if your society celebrates tolerance at the expense of moral correctness)
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To: doc30

There is no way they can ignore the "other side" if they are in public school.


103 posted on 05/03/2005 9:26:38 AM PDT by texpat72 (<><)
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To: doc30

There is no way they can ignore the "other side" if they are in public school.


104 posted on 05/03/2005 9:27:15 AM PDT by texpat72 (<><)
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To: texpat72

Sorry for the double post!


105 posted on 05/03/2005 9:27:55 AM PDT by texpat72 (<><)
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To: js1138

"All of these have at one time been Why questions, and are now How questions."

Yet "Why" remains unanswered. What benefit does it serve for us to have disease, if disease is in fact only here to kill and make things live a painful life? We can know "How" from any number of positions, but we still can't come up with a scientific REASON for it. Only an explanation of it's mechanics.


106 posted on 05/03/2005 9:35:39 AM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha
What benefit does it serve for us to have disease, if disease is in fact only here to kill and make things live a painful life?

Diseases do not exist for our benefit. They are not explained in these terms.

107 posted on 05/03/2005 9:40:18 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

"I don't want to ever be in a confrontational mode with those kids ... I find it disheartening as a teacher."

That's right children, just keep your mouths shut and accept whatever the teacher tells you. After all, we know that they know all there is to know.


108 posted on 05/03/2005 9:52:52 AM PDT by elephantlips
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To: js1138

"They are not explained in these terms."

Exactly why science is not the complete way of knowing.

If it exists, it must have a good. It must also have a bad.


109 posted on 05/03/2005 9:53:31 AM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha
f it exists, it must have a good. It must also have a bad.

That sounds like new age, hippie-dippie claptrap. What does it mean?

110 posted on 05/03/2005 9:55:26 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: mlc9852
I predict evolution will eventually go the way of the dinosaurs!

I don't remember that part in Genesis about the dinosaurs. It couldn't be that Genesis left something out, could it?

Nah....

111 posted on 05/03/2005 9:56:41 AM PDT by narby
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To: narby

Actually, if you read Job you may recognize the description of a dinosaur.


112 posted on 05/03/2005 10:00:54 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: js1138

What you are calling "hippie" is Daoist philosophy, not anti-esablisment druggy-speak. My point is that you advocate a way of knowing, yet you refuse that others may also have an opinion that may be valid in this regards.

It means that EVERYTHING has a reason and a flaw. Love, hate, murder, even opposing philosophies. Science has a reason, but it also has a flaw.

The flaw is it's own egotism combined with its recent willful dismissal of dialectic thinking (conversations with laymen isn't an option to many "true scientists" as it is seen as "wasting time")

It's benefits are seen in our worldly progressions.

Your scientific views are incomplete in it's search for what is. And willfully so.


113 posted on 05/03/2005 10:02:43 AM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha; PatrickHenry
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods40.html

There is no conflict between faith and reason. At least there shouldn't be. Here is an article about the newest book by Thomas Woods about how the Catholic Church has one of history's great patrons of science. Maybe we can get Pope Benedict to be a witness for the evolutionary side in this farcical Kansas debate.

114 posted on 05/03/2005 10:02:57 AM PDT by ValenB4 (Viva il Papa, Benedict XVI)
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To: ValenB4

There is no conflict between faith and reason. At least there shouldn't be.

Agreed and agreed.


115 posted on 05/03/2005 10:06:42 AM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha
Your scientific views are incomplete in it's search for what is. And willfully so.

Science willfully limits its inquiries to those things that science can study. It also resists inclusion of methodologies that have no history of being helpful in scientific inquiry.

I think the real problem is that science has a long history of producing useful knowledge -- medicine, digital watches, and so forth. Non-scientists would love to associate themselves with the prestige that comes from centuries of achievement, and would like to call themselves scientific.

I notice, for example, that ID calls itself scientific, and not Taoist or Buddhist or Christian or Marxist or Deist, or spiritualist or whatever. If these other ways of knowing are so great, and science is so limited, why does everyone want to ride the coattails of science?

116 posted on 05/03/2005 10:12:45 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: MacDorcha
Why don't we look at the effects of avoding/condeming bringing religious influences into schools: USSR, People's Republic of China, North Korea, North VietNam...

Someone once said "if you remove religion from people's lives, they won't then believe in nothing, they'll believe in anything". The primary reason those places forcefully removed religion from public life was so they could replace it with a secular religion worshiping the government, or a particular leader.

Religion still existed in those places. Just the particular diety was changed.

117 posted on 05/03/2005 10:12:49 AM PDT by narby
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Evolution as a fact. Why are students told that Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific fact - even though many of its claims are based on misrepresentations of the facts?

Bingo. Macro evolution, i.e. man evolving from another animal, cannot be described as a scientific fact. However, micro evolution or small changes within species can and so the evolutionists love to mix it all together, call it evolution and say it's all scientific fact.

118 posted on 05/03/2005 10:14:23 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: js1138

"I notice, for example, that ID calls itself scientific, and not Taoist or Buddhist or Christian or Marxist or Deist, or spiritualist or whatever. "

And this is fro two reasons:

1) if they said "religion" anywhere, you would dismiss them, and they would not have a say in the conversation that you would even bat an eye to.

and

2) Science, being a philosophy (reasoning, way of knowing, etc.) SHOULD include the idea that ID is a legitimate means to existance. Design is more readily observable than random chance. And Science's methodology professes that we can only assert what we observe.


119 posted on 05/03/2005 10:17:24 AM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: js1138

An intriguing insight.


120 posted on 05/03/2005 10:18:10 AM PDT by From many - one.
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