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SAAMI weighs in on ammunition serial numbering scheme
SAAMI ^ | 4/26/05 | SAAMI

Posted on 05/05/2005 2:18:30 PM PDT by BCR #226

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To: BCR #226

41 posted on 05/05/2005 7:02:18 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The MRS wanted to go to an expensive place to eat so I took her to the gas station.)
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To: BCR #226
The bill does not exempt law enforcement from its requirements. Therefore, state and local law enforcement will not be able to purchase non-serialized ammunition from manufacturers.

I believe that the bill was amended to exempt law-enforcement agencies. Personally, I think that the ammunition manufacturers should simply refuse to do business with any of them if this passes.

Hey, it worked in Maine - the AW bill was voted down after Bushmaster told the legiscritters that it would cut off LE if it could no longer sell its products in state. This is no different.

42 posted on 05/05/2005 8:24:33 PM PDT by gieriscm
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To: river rat

Reloading without using approved serialized bullets will be a felony for EACH round.


43 posted on 05/05/2005 8:56:49 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee

Even I don't believe the bastards are crazy enough to write a law that requires everyone in the country to scrap or "turn in" all their pre-Law unserialized ammo?

I don't even want to think about the folks that would want to return it with "extreme prejudice"...

Semper Fi


44 posted on 05/05/2005 9:08:53 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: river rat

Well, it's been written.

You can read it here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_0351-0400/sb_357_bill_20050504_amended_sen.html

My prediction:
language will be added to exempt CA LE agencies
The amended bill will pass both Assembly and Senate
Arnie will veto.

Getting Arnie to veto this "crime prevention" measure is the real reason that Lockyer pushed for this while he was planning a run for Governor. Now that he's out of that race, he's just trying to get some free publicity.


46 posted on 05/05/2005 9:17:35 PM PDT by absalom01 (No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.)
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To: BCR #226
The politicians don't have to worry about being impacted by this bill.

Because when the sh$% comes down (and I'm thinking more and more that it eventually will), the populace will opt for the much-more-fun activity of hanging the bastards from lampposts.

As a deterrant to other tyrants, ya see.

47 posted on 05/05/2005 9:20:40 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: river rat

Same, same !.......don't forget to grab a brick of 22 rimfire at wally world whenever ya grab yer grub and goobers !


48 posted on 05/05/2005 9:33:41 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: river rat
Pretty soon they'll make all your 'supplies' illegal my friend.

Then, thanks to the PATRIOT Act, they'll be able to go through your bank records and credit card purchases. So, I sure hope you didn't buy any of that stuff mail order and put it on your Visa card.

Before you know it, there'll be 'safety checks' for folks coming across the Nevada border. You know, just to make sure you ain't smuggling in any Bullseye or IMR products.

But, what do I know...

L

49 posted on 05/05/2005 9:36:46 PM PDT by Lurker (Remember the Beirut Bombing; 243 dead Marines. The House of Assad and Hezbollah did it..)
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To: Hank Rearden
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security...

Each year new 'abuses and usurpations' are written into law and debuted around New Years. Likewise, each year it becomes more difficult to remain law abiding. Outlawism is beginning to look more and more attractive, and from a purely economic perspective, the better choice.

50 posted on 05/05/2005 9:47:54 PM PDT by budwiesest (Islam-- the shining sewer on the hill.)
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To: BCR #226
"Instead manufacturers would have no alternative but to abandon the California market."

From the experts, SAAMI.

This is exactly what the Kali polidiots want: No ammo in Kali. It has been their stated goal all along. I forget who the polidiot was who said that if they cannot ban guns, they will ban the ammunition. I believe that was Sarah Brady of Handgun Control, Inc.

I just hope that the ammunition guys do as Barrett rifles has: Forbids sales to the Kali government. "If we can't sell to the people, we won't sell to you."

51 posted on 05/06/2005 5:46:14 AM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: BCR #226

"The bill does not exempt law enforcement from its requirements. "

It will for the bill to pass.

There will be a small fortune to be made running ammo into Kali.


52 posted on 05/06/2005 5:51:44 AM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: shellshocked

Yep, and the bill has been amended to exempt government and LEO...

I urge everyone to contact the ammo makers and ask that they pull out of California if this bill becomes law. Ask that they not recognise the LEO exemption and ask that they put out public letters on the matter.

Mike


53 posted on 05/06/2005 6:08:45 AM PDT by BCR #226
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To: BCR #226
The cost to comply would bankrupt any manufacturer that tried

And here, in 10 words, is the real reason they seek to require it. No ammunition? No guns!

54 posted on 05/06/2005 6:23:49 AM PDT by Gritty ("Democrats seem to have decided that the very concept of an 'enemy' is dubious"-Mark Steyn)
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To: BCR #226

This technique is bassackward. The engraving should be done as hologrammed rifling where a machining process layers the rifle grooves with proportions to the weapon's serial number. Beginning with a common identifier groove, the serial number could be determined by the width and depth of rifles groove which corresponds to the digits 0-9.

This would work much like a radial version of a combined Moorse code and Braille. With laser cutting techniques, the cost per weapon could be roughly 2-5$ and it's by far easier, less expensive, and less paperwork to track a weapon by a serial number imprinted onto ammo than it is to log serial numbers for every round of ammo.

Therein lies a quandry. What could the government do to assure compliance? fine every legally registered owner for not complying? confiscate non-compliant weapons, a direct violation of the Second Amendment? or offer incentives to the legal for having this done?

Really, I don't know. But right now, I don't believe the unsolved cases warrant a breach of S.A. rights of current law abiding citizens and I believe any attempt to criminalize those who rather not comply with "new laws" would make the government guilty of violating the "ex-post de-facto" provisions of the Constitution, so if we continue the breach by breach steps on this path government tends to follow, we might as well throw the whole document to the trash.


55 posted on 05/06/2005 6:35:19 AM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: BCR #226

I expect bullet manufacturers to refuse to sell into Kali.


56 posted on 05/06/2005 6:45:01 AM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: river rat

" Here in Kalifornicate -- you can't be too careful.."

Why don't they just change the state's name to.....

"BANANDFORNICATE"?


57 posted on 05/06/2005 7:23:25 AM PDT by ronjon
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To: muir_redwoods
Why on earth do they continue to piss-off the people who are already armed? Not good tactics

Well, it's worked just fine so far. Why not just keep on pushing? Gun owners have been remarkably patient so far, and I think they're banking on a continuation of that patience.

58 posted on 05/06/2005 10:01:31 AM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: BCR #226
Instead manufacturers would have no alternative but to abandon the California market.

Exactly what CA legislators want.

What they expect to have take its place (black market boom in ammo, alienation of otherwise profoundly law-abiding citizens) is up for grabs.

59 posted on 05/06/2005 1:24:29 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: gieriscm
I believe that the bill was amended to exempt law-enforcement agencies.

This, despite the fact that it would make more sense to require police to carry serialized ammo in their duty weapons than to require the general public to use such ammo. Police are more likely than normal persons to find themselves in a situation where more than one person is shooting at someone. Having serialized and tracked ammunition would make it easier to resolve such cases (including those where a stray round injures an innocent bystander).

Exempting police from such a requirement for their duty ammo while subjecting everyone else to such a requirement for their range ammo shows the real intention of the bill.

60 posted on 05/09/2005 7:54:27 PM PDT by supercat (Sorry--this tag line is out of order.)
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