Pilot who wrecked Black Hawk admits he was showing off

Associated Press ^ | May. 05, 2005 | JAYMES SONG

[GOPGuide]

Changing the topic a little bit,

When the JSF is cancelled, how many executives at Lockheed Martin are going to be hung by the balls?

[Doe Eyes]

We have a problem recruiting people who can actually hack the syllabus to become pilots.

Are you serious? I don't much about recruiting, but pilots, especially fighter pilots, seem to be the cream of the crop. College degree required. Please, post some info about our recruiting problems.

[Pukin Dog]

Again, it is not so much about recruiting, but getting the right kind of people. How do I find a nice way to say that America is not producing as many of 'the right kind of folks' these days without getting into another argument.

I'll just put it this way; The Navy was better off, when a higher percentage of boys grew up with fathers in the home. Our society has gotten soft, and there are fewer and fewer of the right types available who are willing to make those kind of sacrifices when their abilities can take them into safer and much more lucrative options.

[Pukin Dog]

I have sworn off any and all discussion of the JSF. I've decided to let those who think they know more about this than me have sway until that fateful day, when they will owe me more than a few apologies. Until then, I'm saying nothing about JSF at all.

[Doe Eyes]

How do I find a nice way to say that America is not producing as many of 'the right kind of folks' these days without getting into another argument.

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm not an aviator, but as part of my job, I spend a lot of time with military pilots. I am always impressed with this group. Do you really think there is another career that competes with flying an F-22, F-16, F-18, F-14, ...?

[csvset]

It happens. Years ago a A-6 pilot flying out of Oceana Naval Air Station crashed while "showing off". He just happened to hit a car with a pregnant woman that was driving down Oceana Blvd.

[sargunner]

Dog,

I agree. I enjoyed the shows more when both the Angels and Birds were using McDonnell Douglas' finest. They were more brutish than sleek.

[Ichneumon]

"Yes, ma'am, basically I was trying to impress the guys in the back," Rogers said.

Did it work?

[AndrewC]

Then he winged the jet over, and dropped it into a power substation, killing everyone on board.

All that you said was true, however when he killed everyone on board he was preparing for a performance scheduled and authorized by the command. He was allowed to fly but had some of superiors on board to watch him. You can read an analysis to find out why.

Darker Shades of Blue: A Case Study of Failed Leadership

Killed in the crash were Lt Col Arthur "Bud" Holland, the Chief of the 92d Bomb Wing Standardization and Evaluation branch. Lt Col Holland, an instructor pilot, was designated as the aircraft commander and was undoubtedly flying the aircraft at the time of the accident. 4 The copilot was Lt Col Mark McGeehan, also an instructor pilot and the 325th Bomb Squadron (BMS) Commander. There is a great deal of evidence that suggests considerable animosity existed between the two pilots who were at the controls of Czar 52..

This was a result of Lt Col McGeehan's unsuccessful efforts to have Bud Holland "grounded" for what he perceived as numerous and flagrant violations of air discipline while flying with 325th BMS aircrews. Colonel Robert Wolff was the Vice Wing Commander and was added to the flying schedule as a safety observer by Col Brooks, the Wing Commander, on the morning of the mishap. This was to be Col Wolff's "fini flight," an Air Force tradition where an aviator is hosed down following his last flight in an aircraft. Upon landing, Col Wolff was to be met on the flightline by his wife and friends for a champagne toast to a successful flying career. The radar navigator position was filled by Lt Col Ken Huston, the 325th BMS Operations Officer.

That blue speck near the tail is the doomed copilots hatch flying away too late for safe ejection.

Let me add that to successfully penetrate bad guy country with a B-52(flying aluminum mountain), it is necessary to fly as low as you can.

[iconoclast]

I don't see how one could be so negligent when they have lives under their control, even with the peer pressure.

Maximum penalty for him.

[Pukin Dog]

Do you really think there is another career that competes with flying an F-22, F-16, F-18, F-14, ...?

No, not after you have made it.

But I am talking about the smart, but athletic high school kid who wants to be a sports star, who because of good grades, can go to a football mill and be treated like a god, instead of going to the Naval Academy and be treated like a mule until gaining some rank.

To make the choice to bypass the early glory and continue to study hard and make good grades, while competing with other kids, probably smarter than you anyway, takes a special kid.

All I am saying, is that there are fewer of those kids around today. But Navy pilots of today are without question better than we ever where in my day. They have to be. Which makes it that much harder to find those guys. Especially when they can go to the *cough* Air Force and skate.

[AndrewC]

But wings vertical in a B52?

I was not referencing the particular maneuver that resulted in the crash. I was referring to something included in the analysis I linked. Wings vertical in a B-52 is not a good idea at any altitude unless your intent is to scare the sh*t out of everybody involved in the combat or showoff situation. Plus you must have a serious death wish.

As to wings high, that can occur innocently due to fuel redistribution. If I remember correctly, if you do not correct a roll input by 20-30 degrees of roll close to the ground, you are in serious trouble.

[Reagan79]

Was this a training mission?

[patton]

was what a training mission?

[Tennessee_Bob]

All that you said was true, however when he killed everyone on board he was preparing for a performance scheduled and authorized by the command.

Very true - however, he was performing out of the envelope - something he did on a regular basis. A habit which had gotten him in trouble, but not grounded. As a result, he and his crew died.

Let me add that to successfully penetrate bad guy country with a B-52(flying aluminum mountain), it is necessary to fly as low as you can.

Depends on the mission and what kind of defenses you're trying to penetrate - but you knew that. It also entails following the basic rules of physics and flight. See my post 45 in this thread. Holland acted like a teenager with dad's car. He had a reputation for being a hotdog.

[Flightdeck]

"The Blue Angels and Thunderbirds don't do anything that any fleet pilot cant do. The attributes that get people into a demo squad are always about attitude, consistency, personality and only then is it about ability."

I would have placed ability a bit higher on the list than you, but what you wrote generally agrees with what I know. My next door neighbor was a Thunderbird '79-'81 and he falls in line exactly with your characterization. He is a great guy and engineer. I'd known him for a year before the context came up that he mentioned he was a Thunderbird, whereas I would probably wear it on my chest.