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1 posted on 05/06/2005 1:07:07 PM PDT by Caleb1411
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To: BibChr; rhema
. . .The problem of secularism is not just with the outside culture thinking it can do without God. The deeper problem is that the church itself has become secularized. A smaller but purer church may well have more impact than the diffuse cultural Christianity that has lost its saltiness and its savor.

This is a challenge that evangelicals need to consider. With our megachurch, church-growth mindset, we often assume that bigger is better, and a church with lots of members is a strong church. Is this always true? In our efforts to reach the secular culture, is the secular culture instead sometimes reaching us?

The ideal would be to have both size and purity. But might there come a time when American evangelicalism too will need to be winnowed? —•

2 posted on 05/06/2005 1:09:01 PM PDT by Caleb1411
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To: Caleb1411

Good! A twist on "liberation theology" - this time the Vatican will use theology to liberate people from the socialists.


3 posted on 05/06/2005 1:09:22 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: Caleb1411

I wish this guy was 25 yrs younger. God bless Pope Benedict XVI.


4 posted on 05/06/2005 1:10:26 PM PDT by stevio (American Male)
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To: Caleb1411

"Eighty percent of Spaniards are Catholic, but only a third of them go to church and follow its teachings."

Well then - hate to be too logical here- then only a third of the 80% ARE Catholics.....duh.


5 posted on 05/06/2005 1:10:29 PM PDT by DesignerChick
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To: Caleb1411; narses; NYer; Salvation

>>"If it's true Pope Benedict XVI prefers a leaner, smaller, purer church as he has spoken of before," said Notre Dame professor R. Scott Appleby, "we could see a withering of certain Catholic institutions because they're not considered fully Catholic. This might include Catholic colleges, hospitals, and other Catholic institutions."

The more I read about our Holy Father, the more I LOVE him!


6 posted on 05/06/2005 1:11:10 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Pope B16-Smacking down Heresy since 1981! God Bless him!)
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To: Caleb1411
Whether the hard line makes the nominal Catholics quit or if the church expels them, either way the result will be fewer Catholics.

No, the result will be fewer "Catholics." Get 'er done, Pope Benedict!

7 posted on 05/06/2005 1:16:43 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The short, gray-haired lady, with all the kids.)
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To: Caleb1411
It may be easier under Roman Catholicism, with its ancient—and unbiblical—teaching that the church has temporal authority over the state.

The Church has spiritual authority over the state, not temporal authority. If this gentleman seriously thinks that is unBiblical, he needs to explain away Samuel, Nathan, and Elijah ... just for starters.

9 posted on 05/06/2005 1:18:14 PM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Caleb1411

Our new Pope is a very clever man. He used the liberal's separation of church and state demand against them in dealing with rouge priests working with Marxist governments in Central America. He won't be easily outwitted by liberals, no matter how intellectually superior they think they are.


10 posted on 05/06/2005 1:18:16 PM PDT by Jackson57
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To: Caleb1411

if catholicism is to have any meaning, it is going to have to put it's foot down every now and again.


13 posted on 05/06/2005 1:20:01 PM PDT by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you.)
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To: Caleb1411

The Body of Christ will always be few (narrow is the way, and few who find it). Hence, even large evangelical churches, the RC church, and even mainline protestant churches only contain a small subset of those in the Body. The rest have conformed to the world, but like to call themselves Christians. But, the Bride of Christ (universal, not exclusive to one denomination, and being called out by God) will be presented spotless to Her Bridegroom - redeemed by His own blood. Maranatha!


14 posted on 05/06/2005 1:23:37 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Caleb1411

AHA!
So there is to be a TEST for membership in the
Roman Catholic church.
Whodabelievedit?
There are a few more institutions that require a TEST of membership.
Membership in the Judicial Branch of government needs a TEST based on swearing allegiance to the Constitution AS WRITTEN.
Employment in this country needs a TEST of legal residence.

On the matter of civil disobedience:
Jesus did not admonish us to obey un-Godly laws. He taught that money belongs to the government. Life belongs to God.

When the government takes a life, whenter by court order or legalizing abortion it is playing God. The government can take all the money it prints. It can not take the life that it does not give.

There must be a TEST for the law, any law. The test must be administered in the heart of the believer. Does obedience to the Law require separation from the Will of God? If it does it must not be obeyed.
Thank you Pope Benedict.


16 posted on 05/06/2005 1:30:42 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE)
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To: Caleb1411
Sorry, but even though I agree with strenuous opposition to queer marraiges, the Pope is on very shakey ground here: telling citizens of another state to fail to do their duties under that state's laws is an attempt to assert temporal power. The belief that Rome claimed that kind of authority over Catholics is precisely the reason Protestant countries were not prepared to have Catholics in public office, and the basis for much of the anti-Catholic discrimination in the United States and England since the Glorious Revolution. This kind of move on the Pope's part would be a godsend to the LEFT, because a whole lot of people who agree with the goal of opposing queer marriage, would be a whole lot more upset at the notion of the Pope controlling the behavior of American officials. JFK would never have been elected in 1960, without his pledge not to place his duty to the laws of the US above his obligations to Rome.
17 posted on 05/06/2005 1:34:55 PM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Caleb1411

Bump.


18 posted on 05/06/2005 1:38:01 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Caleb1411
American evangelicals, for all of their political activism, have not gone so far as to tell file clerks in Massachusetts to misplace the marriage records of gay couples, or a worker in an adoption agency to lose the application of homosexuals

Okay, I'll tell them right now.

19 posted on 05/06/2005 1:38:05 PM PDT by Rytwyng (Men should only occupy themselves with hunting and war -- Genghis Khan)
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To: Caleb1411

The man who Should have been Pope.
From a nun in Fort Dodge...
What you probably don't know about the recent conclave to select the new pope is that there is one particularly qualified and distinguished man who could not be selected.

Bishop Hans Grapje was raised in a Catholic school in The Hague. As a young man, he aspired to become a priest, but was drafted into the army during WWII. He spent two years flying aboard B17s as a co-pilot until, in 1943, his aircraft was shot down and he lost his left arm.

While a POW, Hans spent the remainder of the war as a chaplain, giving spiritual advice and last rites to dying soldiers, allied and enemy. He was renowned for his ecumenical tenderness and compassion.

After the war, Grapje became a priest and served as a missionary throughout Africa. In spite of his handicap, he was noted for piloting his own bush plane into the deepest, most primitive villages to spread the church's message and charity to the impoverished.

In 1997, then Archbishop Grapje was serving at an outpost in Zimbabwe when an explosion in one of the country's vast silver mines caused a catastrophic cave-in. The archbishop, in spite of his age and infirmity, went down into several of the shafts to administer last rites to those who would never escape.

He was in one of these shafts when it partially caved in, trapping him and several rescuers. Although he was rescued three days later, he suffered several painful injuries, including one that cost him his right eye. Additionally, the silver content in the shaft's air supply had poisoned him, causing his skin to take an indigo hue - a condition known as argyriasis - that persists to this day. Although the Cardinal has devoted, and indeed risked, his life in the service of God for nearly 70 years, as a scholar, a mentor, and the epitome of a holy man, church politics preclude his ascension to the Papacy.

Church leaders have made it clear they don't want a one-eyed, one armed, flying purple, Papal leader.


20 posted on 05/06/2005 1:38:48 PM PDT by G Larry (Promote Conservative Judges NOW!)
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To: Caleb1411
"One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law."

Now THAT is a good tagline.

21 posted on 05/06/2005 1:40:27 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: Caleb1411

They should start by kicking all the queers out of the seminaries -- fast. The, perhaps, heterosexual men will be willing to go to the seminaries to become priests.


32 posted on 05/06/2005 2:03:02 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: Caleb1411
But surely it is precisely the nominal Catholics—those who claim membership but hardly ever go to church and ignore its teachings—that the new pope would be glad to be rid of.

Actually, I think the pope would be glad if these nominal Catholics became faithful Catholics.

38 posted on 05/06/2005 2:14:30 PM PDT by conservonator (Lord, bless Your servant Benedict XVI)
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To: Caleb1411
"The cafeteria is closed."

This could get very interesting.

39 posted on 05/06/2005 2:14:52 PM PDT by The Iguana
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To: Caleb1411
Anyone who will read the Declaration on Procured Abortion, which came from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1974, will find in there several clear, categorical calls for civil disobedience with regard to abortion. Many Magisterial documents in the past century have defined occasions when direct disobedience to civil law is morally REQUIRED.

But this teaching has largely been a dead letter. The bishops in America have called for disobedience to the U.S. Supreme Court's decisions precisely ONCE, in April of 1973. The rest of the time, they have called upon Catholics to DISAGREE with the Supreme Court's decisions.

69 posted on 05/06/2005 2:56:00 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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