[ZULU]

There is sense in what ou say.

But based on my experience with the government, I wouldn't rely on it to make certain of much more than it collects whetver revenue it can reap from this to fill its insatiable craving for ever more dollars.

Proper logging and grazing practises can result in imptoved forest lands. The key here is "proper".

As for mining, aside from closely monitored oil or gas removal, I'd be very skeptical.

My point is National Parkland and forests are the common property of every American. The Federal Government is merely the steward of that property, and the ultimate result of any grazing or logging permitted should be to improve that common resource, not to feather the pockets of politicians, loggers, or cattle ranchers.

[Torie]

The latest book by Jarek Diamond painted a pretty grim picture of mining practices in the US. The negative externalities now being dealt with by the taxpayers (the mining companies are bankrupt or were allowed to close down and distribute their assets elsewhere through government incompetence), are simply huge. Count me very skeptical too when it comes to mining. Only very deep pockets should even be considered, and yes, very closely monitored. Bill Gates, where are you?

[zarf]

As for mining, aside from closely monitored oil or gas removal, I'd be very skeptical.

Knowing the gubmint they will permit wholesale clear cutting of forests.

I would tend to agree with your worries. Yeah, I'm one of those enviromental wack jobs. I became one after witnessing the wholesale rape of the North Maine Woods by the timber companies.

[musicman]

Zulu, your initial post on this thread, brought back to mind one of my favorite jokes:

A scruffy, unshaven, underfed , backwoods looking individual is standing at the defense table with his public defender in a Florida court of of law, waiting for the judge to enter to begin the trial
for which he is charged and pleading guilty with killing a Florida panther. Seated in the front row of the courtroom are his equally shabbily dressed and undernourished wife, and their four small children. All talking suddenly stops and everyone rises as the bailiff announces to the courtroom the arrival of the judge who is to preside over the trial. The judge tells the courtroom to be seated as he sits and begins the trial by reading the charges of the defendant to the now totally quiet court.

The judge begins;" Sir you are in this court of law today charged with the criminal offense of killing a Florida panther, which is a felony in this great state. I have carefully reviewed your past criminal history, of which you have none, and have also found out that the small monthly checks that you do receive for being physically handicaped, and no longer able to to be gainfully employed, is barely enough to sustain you and your family in the simple backwoods lifestyle that you have by nessesity have had to endure for the past decade.

"Since this is your first ever offense, I am not going to give you any jail time for this crime, but I am going to fine you for it, and small monthly payments will be taken out of your monthly check, untill the fine is totally paid.
Now before I send you to the clerk to finish your paperwork concerning this, is there anything you would like to say to this court?"

The frail man rises to his feet and replies "Yes I do your Honor. I did not kill this animal for fun or sport, I killed this animal to survive. The meat from this animal sustained my wife and family for over two weeks, and after the hide was sufficienly tanned, it was made in to small articles of clothing for my four children. I did not waste this animal your Honor"

With hardly a dry eye in the courtroom, the scruffy gentleman returns to his seat. The judge replies " I believe you, but my verdict still stands. This trial is adjoured, and you can follow the bailiff to the clerks office to finish the legal paperwork, but before you do, would you please approach the bench?"

The defendant nods in the affirmative, and makes his way to the judge's bench. The judge pushes his courtroom microphone
out of sounds reach, leans over his bench, and softly but inquisitively inquires;" I'd like to ask you one question before you depart. What in the world does a Florida Panther taste like?"

The shabbily dressed gentleman raises his right hand to his scruffy beard and begins to rub it in deep thoght as he ponders the judge's question, and then after a few seconds, gives the judge his reply.

"Well your Honor, that's kind of difficult question to answer you see, because it's kind of a toss-up between a bald eagle and a manatee........."

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

What type of paper do you shuffle in your job?

[Tailback]

My point is National Parkland and forests are the common property of every American.

How much National parkland and forests do we need? 2/3 of Oregon is National, State, or County forest. Every year thousands of acres of forest in Oregon burn up due to no thinning. Two years ago a huge fire in Southwestern Oregon ravaged state and national forests and the insane environmentalists wouldn't even allow salvage logging of what usable dead trees were left. Last year environmentalists tried to stop all thinning and logging operations in the Tillamook and Clatsop forests. Most of the Tillamook and Clatsop forests were destroyed in the 1930's during the great Tillamook burn. The forests were replanted to provide resources for Oregonians, not parks for Californians.

My parents lives, careers, retirements, and community were destroyed because of the spotted owl farce back in the 1980's I'm sick of people in California and New York telling the citizens of Pacific Northwest states what we can and cannot do with our forests.