Posted on 05/07/2005 8:05:03 AM PDT by churchillbuff
I LOVE IT.
THANKS.
KJV 17 translations. Cute. I actually hadn't registered that factoid.
Fortunately, it is not up to you.
bttt
It is both. Actually, I went back and read "Purpose Driven Church" after the other one, because I heard a local pastor refer to it. In that book, Rick Warren advocates that if any of the older "Traditional" members (read: CONSERVATIVE) want to keep their tradional music or beliefs, they are considered "Idolators". I find that extremely offensive, and maintain that those who want to practice only "Contemporary" methods or music must also be considered idolators. Warren is really stretching it with his method. Local churches are taking it to the extreme, literally pushing out members who oppose Warren's views.
TommyDale,
It is definitely not the TRUTH
that Rick Warren had a goal of twisting Scripture.
I rebuke that deception from the pit.
The fruit from Rick's ministry is
--Biblical
--Christ centered
--persistent
--discipled in systematic but practical ways
--broad and deep
--brings Glory to God.
throw what rocks you will. That's the truth.
I thought you sought the truth.
I think that's a separate issue. I've attended churches of many different styles. Some friends of mine and I used to do it just for the education factor. Really, starchy and rigid is more of a style than an obstacle, unless it distorts the gospel. But loose and "free" can also be a means to distort the gospel, or it can be just about style. I've seen both. Style shouldn't be an obstacle to us. I think Christians are called to love one another and we shouldn't pick at stupid things. At the same time, TD is right, we need to be VERY wary of false teachings. The trick is to understand what is and is not essential.
We need to be mindful that there is a spiritual BATTLE going on. We get over confident in ourselves (not God) and forget that we need "the full armor of God." That's the key. We'd better take the battle seriously because we CAN be deceived.
I agree as well. Some mega-church movements are basically person-centered and not Christ-centered. One of our local formerly Baptist churches has built a mega-church building on the outskirts of town. They have ditched the term "Baptist" on any of their signs and ads. They now have a new name: Prairie Crossing Church (I have altered the name, slightly). However, some members claim they are still Baptist. Also, no cross on the outside of the church building, anywhere (there was a big one on the old building), and initially no crosses inside from what I have been told by those who attended the grand opening. Members claim one (one!) is being made for the sanctuary.
My pastor has warned of lots of unscriptural, feel-good doctrine tends to come from such churches. Too many Christians do not know enough about scripture, themselves, to test questionable doctrine against scripture. Seriously studying scripture takes some work and some reading and thinking which some are reluctant to do, sadly. Also a pastor who preaches solid, scripturally-based doctrine is a must. Many of these pastors are NOT found in the largest churches because everything to be found in scripture is just not all feel-good material, and Jesus did not promise to fix all your problems and make your life easy (quite the opposite).
Quix, you are way too quick to criticise, IMHO; this is a genuine and serious issue. False teachers abound, highly attractive and personable false teachers. Scripture clearly warns of this.
Amen. It is up to Him. God will put the "Purpose" and "Revival" where He sees fit. Not man, not a book -- other than the Word of God.
For SURE!
Interesting. You make some strong points. Now I'm curious.
And now we see the real cause for the agenda.
I have yet to hear a critic of Rick Warren, and the Purpose-Driven Life for whom, in the end, it is not about the music.
There's much agreeable wisdom in your words. Thanks.
However, Jesus was not railing at the pharisees over style.
These are generalities. I see an arrogant, condescending attitude coming from his "purpose driven" materials. I can show you where many churches are undergoing turmoil as a result of this philosophy. What may have worked in growning a larger membership in Saddleback isn't necessarily the formula for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Podunk, Alabama or
Midtown, Kansas.
The music is the most obvious change, because it affects peoples' emotions. But the music is only the tip of the iceberg.
The book is works-righteous. That is unscriptural. Scripture says that he who is Baptised and believes will be saved. Works do not save us. My pastor preaches against both the Purpose-Driven Life and the Left Behind series (which portrays a highly non-scriptural picture of the Second Coming).
No, it is NOT about the music, far from it.
Oh, joy. Another pastor who defines himself and his congregation by what he's against. Just what Christianity needs. Another nattering nabob of negativity.
LOL with tears.
Hadn't thought of that.
I think you're right--at least too right.
I love the old hymns. I love SOME modern stuff.
I hate volumes above 85db and one service I endured was 125-150db. A solid 2" thick end of a pew was vibrating like a timpany drumhead and my industrial strength earplugs were still allowing painful tweaks. I hurt for the innocent babies and children who were being tortured with that noise.
And, I was impolitely asked to leave the church--essentially--"I am unable as a pastor to meet your needs . . . " when I suggested it was medically damaging and unChristian as well as against Federal law to subject people to that volume level.
Interestingly, the married pastor so giving me the left boot of fellowship left a number of months later when caught continuing a relationship with a girlfriend he'd insisted he'd ended. Sigh.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
I would love to meet your pastor. He sounds like a wise man.
Please express my gratitude to him for teaching Truth.
I think the major role of the church is "to equip the saints for the work of the ministry." Church members should be going out into the world and reaching people for Christ. Pastors ought to be going out through the week and preaching the gospel, then coming together with the church and teaching the meat of Scripture. Music is part of the worship experience, also important. But sometimes these fights over music reveal that it is not about worship but rather entertainment. That's sad. And the church is trying to be "seeker-friendly" because no one is doing their job throughout the week.
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