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Holy Cross College Throws Out the SAT
Notes from D.R. ^ | 05/11/05 | D.R. Tucker

Posted on 05/11/2005 4:38:02 PM PDT by emeryboard

Holy Cross College is dropping the SAT as an admissions requirement, apparently in the name of boosting ethnic diversity. I disagree with this decision. Not only is it a capitulation to the notion that blacks and Hispanics are somehow unable to get high SAT scores (which is politically correct bigotry, in my book), it also plays into the conspiracy theory that the test is somehow inherently biased against blacks and Hispanics. As Harvard professors Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom have pointed out, Asians tend to do better than whites on the SAT; if the creators of the test were deliberately trying to make the test biased, why would they make it biased in favor of Asians?

Dropping the SAT is an easy way out, an example of what President Bush once called "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

(Excerpt) Read more at drtucker.blogs.friendster.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: affirmativeaction; catholicschools; education; highereduation; holycross; sat
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1 posted on 05/11/2005 4:38:04 PM PDT by emeryboard
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To: emeryboard
Holy Cross College is dropping the SAT as an admissions requirement, apparently in the name of boosting ethnic diversity.

This is not the way to go about this. Cast your net wide. Those who qualify can be admitted, while those who don't can keep shopping. Dropping your standards due to race is paternalistic, to say the least. And those who are admitted sans SAT scores would be considered walking stereotypes.

This causes more harm than anything!


2 posted on 05/11/2005 4:43:48 PM PDT by rdb3 (To the world, you're one person. To one person, you may be the world.)
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To: emeryboard
The Asians, of course, do better on the math portion. Some funny stuff happens when it comes to the language usage part.

Before the SAT came along colleges used to do their own evaluations. Enormous state universities would admit everyone to the first semester, then flunk them out left and right.

3 posted on 05/11/2005 4:45:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rdb3
This causes more harm than anything!

You are, unfortunately, correct.

4 posted on 05/11/2005 4:51:23 PM PDT by Bahbah (Something wicked this way comes)
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To: emeryboard

Ethnic diversity? How many illegals will be applying?


5 posted on 05/11/2005 4:52:46 PM PDT by hsmomx3 (Steelers in '06)
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To: emeryboard

Another chapter in the Dumbing-Down of Amerika!


6 posted on 05/11/2005 4:55:32 PM PDT by andie74 (Socializing children at home since 2003)
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To: emeryboard

This is the typical leftist response to striving for high standards: if maintaining standards won't give you the preferred (politically correct) outcomes, then the standards are the problem. We've seen this over and over again in the decadence and depravity of left-wing cultural decay.....


7 posted on 05/11/2005 5:03:39 PM PDT by Enchante (Kerry's mere nuisances: Marine Barracks '83, WTC '93, Khobar Towers, Embassy Bombs '98, USS Cole!!!)
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To: emeryboard

"As Harvard professors Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom have pointed out, Asians tend to do better than whites on the SAT; if the creators of the test were deliberately trying to make the test biased, why would they make it biased in favor of Asians?"

hahahaha.
but you have to keep in mind that Asians are also descriminated against with affirmative action


8 posted on 05/11/2005 5:06:08 PM PDT by minus_273
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To: emeryboard

More multicultural stupidity from academia...


9 posted on 05/11/2005 5:11:53 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: emeryboard

IMHO, here's the problem with the SAT at this point in time.

If your parents have enough bucks (around $1200 to $3000), you can take a prep course and they will teach you strategies for taking the test.

My nephew just completed one of these prep courses, and it helped him raise his SAT score considerably.

IMHO, that has undermined the strength of the SAT, because it is no longer a true predictor of a student's strengths, but at times is just a predictor of who learned how to "take" the test.


10 posted on 05/11/2005 5:18:38 PM PDT by dawn53
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: dawn53

The other problem is that the much vaunted essay portion of the test is judged on length alone. You can write absolute nonsense for the rest of the essay after the first paragraph and get a very high score.

The SAT is a sick joke.


13 posted on 05/11/2005 5:42:53 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I just read an article about a test specialist who could judge the score on the writing portion by having a person hold it up from across the room.

He said the same thing, the length of the essay determined the score. Very sad because a good writer knows "more" can usually be written with less words


14 posted on 05/11/2005 5:45:33 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address would have failed the essay test if the subject question was best answered by it.

Sorry, but that's a clear sign that something is seriously broken.


15 posted on 05/11/2005 5:47:54 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: dawn53

The SAT didn't used to have an essay portion when I took it. The libs pushed for its inclusion as a poison pill and now they can say that it is useless because of the essay portion...

Any objective measurement is the enemy of liberals and they strive to destroy it.


16 posted on 05/11/2005 5:55:19 PM PDT by winner3000 (part)
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To: emeryboard

Can I send my dog. He showed up and got 100 on the SAT for trying.


17 posted on 05/11/2005 5:56:14 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: Spktyr
the much vaunted essay portion of the test is judged on length alone

Stoo-pid. FYI - I judged your post on content.

18 posted on 05/11/2005 5:57:28 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (We know the right things to do, why don't we just do them?)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

I'm going to assume that you were referring to the new grading system as stupid as opposed to yours truly.


19 posted on 05/11/2005 6:00:24 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: jec41

I don't know what it is now, but after the "new, harder" (pre-essay) SATs were introduced in the 90s, you got 400 points for showing up and putting your name on the paper.


20 posted on 05/11/2005 6:02:59 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: rdb3
Those who qualify can be admitted, while those who don't can keep shopping. Dropping your standards due to race is paternalistic, to say the least.

What's really bad is that it destroys the educational opportunities of some of the best & brightest minority students. There just aren't that many black or Latino kids with 1600 SATs around. So, they get snatched up quick, but then the ultra-high level schools like Harvard or MIT admit quite a few more minority students whose scores & grades are somewhat below their normal standards, in the name of increasing 'diversity.' The students burn out because they are simply unable to compete with their peers -- whereas they would thrive at a second-tier school better suited to their academic level. And the domino effect goes on down through all the lower schools.

21 posted on 05/11/2005 6:09:52 PM PDT by Sloth (I don't post a lot of the threads you read; I make a lot of the threads you read better.)
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To: Spktyr

400 has always been the bottom for SATs.


22 posted on 05/11/2005 6:10:23 PM PDT by Sloth (I don't post a lot of the threads you read; I make a lot of the threads you read better.)
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To: emeryboard

"Not only is it a capitulation to the notion that blacks and Hispanics are somehow unable to get high SAT scores (which is politically correct bigotry, in my book), it also plays into the conspiracy theory that the test is somehow inherently biased against blacks and Hispanics."


Another example of being manipulated by negro an mexican leaders. Don't these leaders understand that their kids are going to have to compete after they get a job?

This is CRAP and the losers are the negro and mexican kids!


23 posted on 05/11/2005 6:10:44 PM PDT by FlyLow ( A democRAT is so bereft of reality he doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt.)
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To: FlyLow

I believe Clarence Thomas is a graduate of Holy Cross College in Worcester Massachusetts. It is now so very expensive many kids cannot afford it. Throwing out the SAT
exam may allow them to get tuition from less qualified students that can afford the stiff tuition but could never have been admitted under the old admission SAT policy.


24 posted on 05/11/2005 6:25:14 PM PDT by oldironsides
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To: rdb3

Absolutely. Great post.


25 posted on 05/11/2005 6:25:29 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but lord I'm free.)
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To: FlyLow

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.


26 posted on 05/11/2005 6:26:38 PM PDT by Not a 60s Hippy (They are SOCIALISTS - not progressives, elitists, liberals, etc.)
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To: oldironsides

You are probably exactly right. Another thing they do is just not admit students who have high financial need. Back in 1994, an admissions officer told me there were only 19 colleges left that had need-blind admissions AND were able to give the aid that was required. Of course his college was one of them, or he wouldn't have brought this up (Vassar). It's probably even fewer than that now.


27 posted on 05/11/2005 6:32:07 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: dawn53

The prep courses, which I took and have also tutored students in, are simply reviews of basic mathematics, sentence structure, and vocabulary. Also, a little bit of logic helps on the multiple-choice section. I fail to see how that undermines the SAT.


28 posted on 05/11/2005 6:35:55 PM PDT by FierceKulak
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To: dawn53
He said the same thing, the length of the essay determined the score.

Reminds me of a story one of my law school profs told about when he was taking a law school exam. The fellow next to him kept going to the front of the room and getting another blue book. Blue book after blue book was being filled up and my prof was sitting there thinking this guy was a genius and he (my prof) was going to fail.

Turns out the guy had a vision problem and had to write twice as large as everyone else, using 2 lines, in order to see it.

Moral is - Write your own exam and don't worry about how much someone else is writing; they could be legally blind. :)

29 posted on 05/11/2005 6:45:20 PM PDT by radiohead (revote in washington state)
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To: Not a 60s Hippy

I am amazed at how little is being taught these days, and yet many parents sleep while the curriculum is dumbed down.

I know some do not believe they can homeschool, but many parents really can. I can, and I very glad that I do.


30 posted on 05/11/2005 7:00:41 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: TruthConquers

Well, we'll need an illiterate underclass when the illegals are all gone; ignorant public school graduates should fill that need just fine.


31 posted on 05/11/2005 7:07:51 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

LOL! So they can vote dumbocrat!


32 posted on 05/11/2005 7:16:20 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: TruthConquers

Most of them are not voting now, see the 04 stats on the "Democratic advantage" 18-24 year olds - most didn't vote.


33 posted on 05/11/2005 7:45:37 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: emeryboard

Shame to hear this from a historically good school. Seems to me they've had some diversity in the past - I believe this is Clarence Thomas's alma mater. It was also attended by Justice Scalia's son. (I saw Scalia at my sister's graduation - his son was in her class.)


34 posted on 05/11/2005 7:50:02 PM PDT by PhatHead (There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those that don't.)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Spktyr

I don't know what it is now, but after the "new, harder" (pre-essay) SATs were introduced in the 90s, you got 400 points for showing up and putting your name on the paper.

Then I'm going to send my cat too, but I'm taking my degrees off the wall. They won't mean anything and I don't want everyone to know how dumb I am.


36 posted on 05/11/2005 7:55:05 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: OneWorldTory
Why on earth should an English Literature or History major take an exam that is 50% math in order to gain admission to university?

Because a true education allows one to excel in any major.
37 posted on 05/11/2005 8:07:40 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: jec41

Unfortunately, there seems to be precious few people possessing this chimerical "true education".


38 posted on 05/11/2005 8:12:40 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: emeryboard

The ACT is a much better test anyway.


40 posted on 05/11/2005 8:46:23 PM PDT by Chewbacca (Not all men are fools -- some are bachelors.)
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To: FlyLow
A democRAT is so bereft of reality he doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt.

Your tag says it all!

41 posted on 05/11/2005 8:52:17 PM PDT by OnRightOnLeftCoast
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To: Spktyr

The new grading system is not based on length. The folks that read and grade these essays are trained and monitored. Occasionally they get an essay that has an established score, and if they don't get it right, their scores can be thrown away and re-scoring begins. Random papers are pulled for scorer checking, and, personally, I think they are almost anal about the training...


42 posted on 05/12/2005 6:53:32 AM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (We know the right things to do, why don't we just do them?)
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To: emeryboard

Holy $hit.


43 posted on 05/12/2005 6:54:36 AM PDT by SAMS (Nobody loves a soldier until the enemy is at the gate; Army Wife & Marine Mom)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

You might want to look at the recent article posted here that mentioned a guy that has something like a 99% accuracy level at guessing the grade based on length. It has other observations - the training and monitoring is a a sick joke.


44 posted on 05/12/2005 7:10:04 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I would like to read that article. What I have seen and what you are saying are very different things.


45 posted on 05/12/2005 7:17:42 AM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (We know the right things to do, why don't we just do them?)
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To: dawn53
IMHO, that has undermined the strength of the SAT, because it is no longer a true predictor of a student's strengths, but at times is just a predictor of who learned how to "take" the test.

Agree with this 100%.

46 posted on 05/12/2005 7:20:36 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1397024/posts


47 posted on 05/12/2005 7:34:58 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

From that article: "You are scoring the writing, and not the correctness of facts."

Funny, every essay *I* ever wrote in English comp was graded on style, grammar *and* factual accuracy.


48 posted on 05/12/2005 7:38:22 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: emeryboard

They've been running "The Vagina Monologues" on Saint Valentine's Day the last few years. HC has already gone to hell, sadly.


49 posted on 05/12/2005 7:46:26 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: emeryboard

It may be that recent changes to the SAT have made it worthless as a predictor of success.
Now since the leftist, feel-good redesign of the test a year or two ago, we see stories in that paper about little Jiimy or Susie who scored a "perfect" 1600. Thirty plus years ago, these kids would be lucky to crack 1200.


50 posted on 05/12/2005 7:52:21 AM PDT by GadareneDemoniac
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