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Climate Change is 'All about Our Money,' Big Investors Say
Associated Press ^ | May 11, 2005 | Charles J. Hanley

Posted on 05/12/2005 2:06:24 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

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To: Alas Babylon!

I'm not Christian, but I also qoute Jesus....


81 posted on 05/12/2005 5:02:30 AM PDT by XavierXray (Don't mind the dyslexia)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Climate Change is 'All about Our Money,' Big Investors Say

For those of you out there who still think climate change is a hoax, my suggestion is to stop denying and start mitigating the economic impact of carbon reduction. If 99 people are saying the sky is yellow and you are the only one saying it is blue, even if you are right, you still look crazy.

Reminds me of the story of the wife of a wealthy stock market investor who piled up all the furniture on Black Thursday in 1929, in expectation of it all being repossessed. Hubby came home and asked, "What the hell're you doing? I made more money today than I ever have."

If 99 people believe some complete BS, keep your mouth shut and figure out ways to bet against'em.

82 posted on 05/12/2005 5:05:15 AM PDT by guitfiddlist (When the 'Rats break out switchblades, it's no time to invoke Robert's Rules.)
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I qoute Gandalf too but I don't belive in the elfs


83 posted on 05/12/2005 5:09:21 AM PDT by XavierXray (Don't mind the dyslexia)
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To: XavierXray

brief introduction to

the history of climate

 

Beginning in the early 1900s, the climate of the world began to warm. This is evident in Figure 1-1, which shows the average Earth surface temperature from 1880 through 1999. The temperature is an area-weighted average over the land and ocean compiled by the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, using an averaging technique devised by Quayle et al. ; see also . In the plot, "zero" temperature is defined as the temperature in 1950. The fine line shows the monthly temperatures; the thicker line shows the 12 month yearly averages.

The figure shows that the 20th century had a temperature rise of nearly one degree Celsius. That may not sound like a lot, but its effects are quite noticeable. In Europe, the great glaciers of the Alps, such as the Mer de Glace near Chamonix, have been in retreat, and the canals of Holland almost never freeze over, as they did in an earlier era to allow Hans Brinker to silver skate into legend. The effects elsewhere on the globe are more severe, with large areas of Central Africa, once fertile, becoming arid and no longer capable of supporting a large population. Although the reason for this warming is not fully understood, many climate scientists think it is the result of the addition of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere by humans.

Figure 1-1 Global warming

 

As we go back in time in search of earlier records, the historical record becomes less reliable. Fortunately, Nature has provided its own recording mechanism. As we will explain in Chapter 4, measurements of oxygen isotopes yield an estimate of ancient temperatures combined with total global ice volume – a combination which is just as interesting as temperature alone, if not more so. Data from a kilometer long core taken from the Greenland glacier, as part of the Greenland Ice Sheet Project "GISP2" , are shown in Figure 1-2. For comparison purposes, the zero of temperature scale for this plot was set to match that of the previous plot. For historical interest, we marked some events from European history.

Figure 1-2 Climate of the last 2400 years

 

The cool period preceding the 20th century warming is now seen as a dip that lasted 700 years. This period is now referred to as "the little ice age." (The coldest periods, near 1400 and 1700, are sometimes called the two little ice ages.) In her popular account of the history of the 14th century, historian Barbara W. Tuchman, argues that the low temperatures triggered social conflict and poor food production, and was thus responsible for hunger, war, and possibly even pestilence . Just a few centuries prior, at the beginning of the second millennium, Europe had experienced the "medieval warm period" . It was a time when civilization emerged from the Dark Ages, art and painting flourished, and the wealth and new productivity of Europe allowed it to build the great cathedrals. Some historians will attribute this flowering to great leaders, or to great ideas, or to great inventions, but it is foolish to ignore the changes in climate. Just prior to that, in the 900s, the Vikings were invading France, possibly driven from the more northern latitudes by the cold temperatures of that century. The height of the Roman republic and empire was reached during another time of unusual warmth – even higher than the warm period of today, if the ice-reckoned temperature scale is accurate.

The next plot (Figure 1-3) shows the data from the Greenland ice core back to 10,000 BC. Near the right hand side of this plot, the little dip of the little ice age is clear. Some scientists argue that global warming is not human caused, but is simply a natural return to the normal temperature of the previous 8,000 years. In fact, no one knows for sure if this is right or not. But the foundation for thinking that human effects will cause warming is substantial. Even if the recent rise in temperature is natural, human caused effects have a high probability of dominating in the near future, and within our lifetimes the temperature of the Earth could go higher than has ever seen previously by Homo sapiens.

Figure 1-3 Climate of the last 12,000 years

 

The dip near 6000 BC is not understood. It actually appears to be coincident with a short term increase in temperature that took place in Antarctica! So we can’t easily interpret everything in these plots, at least not without studying other records. Fluctuations are evident all over the plot, and crying to be understood.

Agriculture began about 7,000 BCE, as marked on the plot. All of civilization was based on this invention. Agriculture allows large groups of people to live in the same location. It allows a small number of people to feed others, so that the others can become craftsmen, artists, historians, inventors, and scientists.

The sudden rise at the left side of the plot, at about 9,000 BCE (i.e. 11,000 years ago), was the end of the last ice age. The abruptness of the termination is startling. Agriculture, and all of our civilization, developed since this termination. The enormous glacier, several kilometers thick, covering much of North America and Eurasia, rapidly melted. Only small parts of this glacier survived, in Greenland and Antarctica, where they exist to this day. The melting caused a series of worldwide floods unlike anything previously experienced by Homo sapiens. (There had been a previous flood at about 120 kyr, but that was before Homo sapiens had moved to Europe or North America.) The flood dumped enough water into the oceans to cause the average sea level to rise 110 meters, enough to inundate the coastal areas, and to cover the Bering Isthmus, and turn it into the Bering Strait. The water from melting ice probably flooded down over land in pulses, as ice-dammed lakes formed and then catastrophically released their water. These floods left many records, including remnant puddles now known as the Great Lakes, and possibly gave rise to legends that persisted for many years. As the glacier retreated, it left a piles of debris at its extremum. One such pile is now known as New York’s Long Island.

In the next plot, Figure 1-4, we show the Greenland ice data for the last 100,000 years. The very unusual nature of the last 11,000 years stands out in striking contrast to the 90,000 years of cold that preceded it. We now refer to such an unusual warm period as an interglacial. The long preceding period of ice is a glacial. During the last glacial, humans developed elaborate tools, and Homo sapiens migrated from Africa to Europe. But they did not develop civilization until the ice age ended.

During the glacial, not only was the temperature lower by 8 Celsius (and some estimates put it at more than 12 Celsius – the record is a superposition of ice volume and temperature), but the climate was extremely irregular. The irregularities in temperature during the glacials, the wild bumps and wiggles that cover much of Figure 1-4, are real, not an artifact of poor measurement. The same bumps and wiggles are seen in two separate cores in Greenland, and in data taken from sea floor records found off the California coast. The ability to adapt quickly during this wild climate ride may have given a substantial advantage to adaptable animals, such as humans, and made it difficult for other large fauna to survive. Maybe it was these rapid changes, and not the rapaciousness of humans, that drove the mammoths, camels, giant ground sloths and giant beavers (the size of bears) of North America extinct. Recent global warming appears negligible on this plot. However, if predictions of climate modelers are correct, global warming temperature changes will be comparable those during the ice age.

Figure 1-4 Climate of the last 100,000 years

 

The reliable data from Greenland go back only as far as shown in Figure 1-4. We can continue the climate plot further back by using the records from Vostok, the Russian base in Antarctica, where another ice core was drilled. The last 420 thousand years of a deuterium measurement at Vostok is shown in Figure 1-5, with the most recent 100 kyr appended from the Greenland record (which is more detailed). The temperature scale was adjusted to agree with the scale on the Greenland record.

Figure 1-5 Climate for the last 420 kyr, from Vostok ice

 

From this plot, it is clear that most of the last 420 thousand years (420 kyr) was spent in ice age. The brief periods when the record peaks above the zero line, the interglacials, typically lasted from a few thousand to perhaps twenty thousand years.

These data should frighten you. All of civilization developed during the last interglacial, and the data show that such interglacials are very brief. Our time looks about up. Data such as these are what led us to state, in the Preface, that the next ice age is about to hit us, any millennium now. It does not take a detailed theory to make this prediction. We don’t necessarily know why the next ice age is imminent (at least on a geological time scale), but the pattern is unmistakable.

The real reason to be frightened is that we really don’t understand what causes the pattern. We don’t know why the ice ages are broken by the short interglacials. We do know something – that the driving force is astronomical. We’ll describe how we know that in Chapter 2. We have models that relate the astronomical mechanisms to changes in climate, but we don’t know which of our models are right, or if any of them are. We will discuss these models in some detail in this book. Much of the work of understanding lies in the future. It is a great field for a young student to enter.

The ice records take us back only to 420,000 years in the past. However, oxygen isotope records in sea floor cores allow us to go further. One of the best sets of data comes from a location in the northern Atlantic Ocean known as the Ocean Drilling Project Site 607 . This site has climate data going back three million years, and is shown in Figure 1-6. But before you look at the figure, let us warn you. In the paleoclimate community, there is a convention that time is shown backwards. That is, the present is plotted on the left-hand edge, and the past is towards the right. We are going to use this opportunity to change our convention, for the remainder of the book, so that you will have less trouble reading the literature. (The literature of "global warming" scientists, in contrast, follows the other convention, which we have used up until now.) We apologize for this change in convention, but we do not take blame for it.

In Figure 1-6, the 10 kyr years of agriculture and civilization appear as a sudden rise in temperature barely visible squeezed against the left hand axis of the plot. The temperature of 1950 is indicated by the horizontal line. As is evident from the data, civilization was created in an unusual time.

There are several important features to notice in these data, all of which will be discussed further in the remainder of the book. For the last million years or so (the left most third of the plot) the oscillations have had a cycle of about 100 kyr (thousand years). That is, the enduring period of ice is broken, roughly every 100 kyr, by a brief interglacial. During this time, the terminations of the ice ages appear to be particularly abrupt, as you can see from the sudden jumps that took place near 0, 120, 320, 450, and 650 thousand years ago. This has led scientists to characterize the data as shaped like a "sawtooth," although the pattern is not perfectly regular.

Figure 1-6 Climate of the last 3 million years

But as we look back beyond a 1000 kyr (1 million years), the character changes completely. The cycle is much shorter (it averages 41 kyr), the amplitude is reduced, the average value is higher (indicating that the ice ages were not as intense) and there is no evidence for the sawtooth shape. These are the features that ice age theories endeavor to explain. Why did the transition take place? What are the meanings of the frequencies? (We will show that they are well-known astronomical frequencies.) In the period immediately preceding the data shown here, older than 3 million years, the temperature didn’t drop below the 1950 value, and we believe that large glaciers didn’t form – perhaps only small ones, such as we have today in Greenland and Antarctica.

As we end this brief introduction to the history of the ice ages, let’s again look to the future. As soon as the cycle of the ice ages was known, scientists realized that the ice age would eventually return. Some of them enjoyed scaring the public about the impending catastrophe. In Figure 1-7 we show the cover from a magazine of the 1940s showing the consequences of the return of the ice age to New York City. (One of the authors of the present book, RAM, saw this image as a child, and it made a lasting impression.) Unfortunately, the art genre of returning ice has been superceded, in the public forum, by paintings of asteroids about to hit the Earth, usually with a curious dinosaur momentarily distracted by the unusual scene. But, as we mentioned earlier, the more likely scenario for the early 21st century, is the continued gradual growth of global warming.

Figure 1 -7 The Ice Age returns to New York City

You may continue in Chapter 1 to read A Brief Introduction to Ice Age Theories, or A Brief Introduction to Spectra.

 

84 posted on 05/12/2005 5:09:33 AM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: myself6

Printed and will be read, Thanks! :D


85 posted on 05/12/2005 5:10:29 AM PDT by XavierXray (Don't mind the dyslexia)
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To: Aussiebabe

Did you see the article on "Global Dimming" that was posted the other day? In a nutshell it said that because we'd cleaned the air so well more sunshine was reaching the earth (ground) and warming it. Hence, the earth is getting warmer.

Then there was the hypothesis that global warming will cause lots of clouds which will result in global cooling. It's all so confusing....I think I'll just enjoy the lovely spring days we're having.


86 posted on 05/12/2005 5:12:16 AM PDT by pepperdog
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Twenty five years of satellite data showing far more likelihood of statistical noise around zero temperature change than likelihood of warming trend (and even that worse case is under 0.2 degree):

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/MSU1278-0405.gif

(From Web Page: http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Glance.htm )

This, despite the fact that we're still recovering from the "Little Ice Age" of a couple centuries ago.

87 posted on 05/12/2005 5:13:30 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: XavierXray

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050502/full/050502-8.html
Earth's air is cleaner, but this may worsen the greenhouse effect.


Hello sunshine: cleaner air could make the world warmer.

Our planet's air has cleared up in the past decade or two, allowing more sunshine to reach the ground, say two studies in Science this week.

Reductions in industrial emissions in many countries, along with the use of particulate filters for car exhausts and smoke stacks, seem to have reduced the amount of dirt in the atmosphere and made the sky more transparent.

That sounds like very good news. But the researchers say that more solar energy arriving on the ground will also make the surface warmer, and this may add to the problems of global warming. More sunlight will also have knock-on effects on cloud cover, winds, rainfall and air temperature that are difficult to predict.

The results suggest that a downward trend in the amount of sunlight reaching the surface, which has been observed since measurements began in the late 1950s, is now over.

The researchers argue that this trend, commonly called 'global dimming', reversed more than a decade ago, probably following the collapse of communist economies and the consequent decrease in industrial pollutants.

The widespread brightening has remained unnoticed until now simply because there wasn't enough data for a statistically significant analysis, says Martin Wild, an atmospheric scientist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich and an author on one of the reports.


88 posted on 05/12/2005 5:14:25 AM PDT by listenhillary (If it ain't broke, it will be after the government tries to fix it)
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To: XavierXray
Jesus is REAL! God is REAL! Captain Kirk, was a character in a television show. As William Shatner said on Saturday Night Live, to the Trekkies, "You people need to get a life!" BTW, the Soviet Union was, according to the communists, a positive futuristic society. They too wanted to abolish money. LOL!
89 posted on 05/12/2005 5:15:43 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
The future is unknown for all of us

For some reason, :) , it seems appropriate to post this to you. Maybe a bit of a 'curveball', so please forgive if 'off topic':

I believe in global warming: Rev. 18:8 ...she (Babylon!) shall be utterly burned with fire....

I figured maybe you'd be interested, since that whole chapter is the genesis of your FR handle. (Even if you are referencing the SF title of the same....that's where he got it, after all....)
Peace

90 posted on 05/12/2005 5:24:03 AM PDT by 1john2 3and4 (Conservatives rage because the truth isn't told. Liberals rage because it IS.)
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To: XavierXray

You do understand that according to the history of climate, we have no control over what is happening to the climate of earth?

The cycle will continue even if we kill 90% of the population of earth, stop using ALL technology, live in huts and walk everywhere. The cycle of heating and cooling can not be altered in ANY significant way by humans.

All we can do is develop technologies that allow us to thrive in whatever climate exists on this planet.


91 posted on 05/12/2005 5:29:17 AM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
If 99 people are saying the sky is yellow and you are the only one saying it is blue, even if you are right, you still look crazy.

So even though eugenics was wrong when 99% of the intelligentsia (including the likes of George Bernard Shaw) advocated it, the denyers should have accepted it?

92 posted on 05/12/2005 5:29:50 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: kidd; XavierXray

>> Where will that hydrogen come from?

The lack of a real answer to that question, or even a basic understanding of what is being asked, really, really annoys me, when discussing this issue.

Discussing energy policy with those without even a basic understanding of thermodynamics, is like discussing multiplication with those who cannot add.


93 posted on 05/12/2005 5:40:03 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Official Ruling Class Oligarch Oppressor)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

Who's going to collect the tax from this carbon-spewing bad boy?

94 posted on 05/12/2005 5:40:30 AM PDT by Yossarian (Remember: NOT ALL HEART ATTACKS HAVE TRADITIONAL SYMPTOMS)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
climate changes regardless of the presence or activitiy of humans, no matter what denyers say or do, the climate will eventually change and they will be "proven" wrong. Whereas if something is done, regardless of what happens, the efforts made will have either prevented things from getting worse, or make the action the reason that nothing happened.

Therefore logic clearly dictates that denyers can only be wrong.

So the cave elders came to Emu and said "We don't see you praying to the thunder gods to stop these floods driving all the game away. So put away that round thing you're workin' on and get with the program, Emu, or we'll be banishing you from the world, meaning this cave."

But Emu knew he was already screwed, since if the floods stopped, it'd be no thanks to him, and if they didn't - he'd be blamed for their continuance. So he finished his round thingie and rolled off to build Stonehedge or a pyramid somewhere.

Seems we haven't learned much "logic" in thousands of years.

95 posted on 05/12/2005 5:51:39 AM PDT by guitfiddlist (When the 'Rats break out switchblades, it's no time to invoke Robert's Rules.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
In a daylong brainstorming "summit," a dozen U.S. state treasurers and hundreds of financiers and other major investors debated ways Tuesday to pressure more U.S. companies into dealing openly with the financial risk of climate change and with ways to reduce it.

That statement is more than a bit misleading. It is not the "financial risk of climate change" that is at issue, rather it is the "financial risk due to anticipated heavy-handed and poorly-conceived government regulations" that is being discussed.

A major focus of the article is the anticipation that knee-jerk responses by governments to the perception that human causes are behind global warming will hurt publicly traded companies, and not that global warming itself will lead to those financial risks. The example of the losses to be incurred by a coal-fired power plant after laws change, or the discussion of a Kyoto-inspired carbon tax, or the actions of investor groups persuading the Ohio-based power companies to examine impacts of future regulation, or the suggestion that companies such as General Electric are well positioned to profit from the scramble of companies to meet the expected legal restrictions on emissions - all of those financial risks are due to government-made calamities, not due to natural calamities.

The enemy is the political class - the problem is that billions upon billions of dollars will be devoted to unproductive enterprises and forced wealth transfer in reaction to "the sky is falling" rhetoric, with little in the way of expected benefits. It's a misguided forced march towards providing "solutions" that cost a great deal but which "solve" little.

A good way to mitigate that financial risk, which is all but ignored in the article, is to elect governments that will not be swept away by the rhetoric, and will not take ill-advised actions that will damage life and liberty while accomplishing little or nothing of substance in affecting the climate.

96 posted on 05/12/2005 5:55:04 AM PDT by The Electrician
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To: XavierXray
Bush is a great leader, and without doubt smarter then he wants people to think (also a great tactic) so I won't go against you on anything he's said or means.

That's PRESIDENT Bush to you. What country are you from?

Kyoto however is not U.S.A's biggest moment of glory.

If you are referring to our veto of the Kyoto protocol, I personally think you are wrong.

97 posted on 05/12/2005 5:55:20 AM PDT by Just A Nobody
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To: CasearianDaoist
It is a hoax..... This is just another socilist hustle designed to reign in capitalism and freedom.

I knew if I kept reading through the posts I would find someone that gets it!

98 posted on 05/12/2005 5:58:49 AM PDT by Just A Nobody
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To: XavierXray

Don't be so quick to pack up your skis...

It's snowing today in Bismarck, North Dakota.

Isn't this "proof" that the long-predicted "21st Century Ice Age" has finally begun?


99 posted on 05/12/2005 6:20:54 AM PDT by pfony1
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To: guitfiddlist

OK, but what is the equivalent of the "round thingie"? as you so eloquently put it.


100 posted on 05/12/2005 6:24:08 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (“There is a law – a law of nature. Man is not the ruler.")
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