Palestinians used Bible toilet paper Muslims' desecration of holy book received little notice

WorldNetDaily ^ | May 18, 2005 | WorldNetDaily.com

[sheik yerbouty]

There is nothing that the jihadists find too vile..

[A CA Guy]

They worship the moon god, not the same God the Jews and Christians do. I think this is reflected in how their people are living still in 400AD and treat their women like animals they don't like.

[DaveTesla]

Had a Christian acted that way in a Mosque, the Muslims
would have had a world wide riot...as they just did over a
false assertion about the Koran.

And my point was:
A perfect example of why we live in the greatest place on
earth..... and they live in a murderous dictator run hell hole.

The toilet paper incident is here:
Published on May 15, 2002, The Washington Times
'Greedy monsters' ruled churchhttp
I have not posted it because the WT charges $2.50 for
the archived article.

[DaveTesla]

The Palestinian gunmen holed up in the Church of the Nativity seized church stockpiles of food and “ate like greedy monsters” until the food ran out, while more than 150 civilians went hungry. They also guzzled beer, wine, and Johnnie Walker scotch that they found in priests’ quarters, undeterred by the Islamic ban on drinking alcohol. The indulgence lasted for about two weeks into the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out, according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests who were trapped inside for the entire ordeal.... The Orthodox priests and a number of civilians have said the gunmen created a regime of fear. Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. “Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold,” said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.42 http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm

[Myrddin]

Now you have a sourced citation.

[Antioch]

I remember the Bamiyan Buddhas-that was pre 9/11. Apparently it took the Taliban nearly a month to obliterate them. The destruction required an extraordinary effort, so complex that Pakistani and Arab explosives experts had to be brought in and local residents were forced to dangle on ropes over a cliff face to chip out holes for explosives. According to witnesses and participants, the Taliban struggled with ropes and pulleys, rockets, iron rods, jackhammers, artillery and tanks before a series of massive explosions finally toppled the statues.

The explosions also destroyed the adobe-and-wood Fatha mosque at the base of the sandstone cliff from which the Buddha was hewn. Hard to believe it actually happened. Sounds like a scripted Orc scene from Lord of the Rings

[DaveTesla]

"You got to wonder about whether or not these creeps really did use the bible as toilet paper."

They did.
There is plenty of documented sources.

PA Disrespect for Christian Holy Sites
The PA has shown contempt for certain Christian holy
sites, and there has been significant desecration as well.
For example, without prior consent of the church, Yasser
Arafat decided to turn the Greek Orthodox monastery near
the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem into his domicile
during his visits to the city.28 On July 5, 1997, the PLO
seized Abraham's Oak Russian Holy Trinity Monastery in
Hebron, violently evicting monks and nuns.29

After the outbreak of Palestinian violence in September
2000, the PA's Tanzim militia chose the Christian town of
Beit Jala to shoot at Jerusalem over other locations from
which they could have similarly targeted communities built
on land captured in 1967. They specifically positioned
themselves in or near Christian homes, hotels, churches
(e.g., St. Nicholas), and the Greek Orthodox club, knowing
that a slight deviation in Israeli return fire would harm
Christian institutions or homes.30

At one point, Andreas Reinecke, head of the German Liaison office to the PA, protested:

I would like to draw your attention in this letter to a number of incidents which occurred at "Talitakoumi" school in Beit Jala...which is funded mainly by the Protestant Church in Berlin.
Over the last few days the school staff noticed attempts on the part of several armed Palestinians to use the school premises and some of its gardens for their activities. If they succeed in doing this, an Israeli reaction will be inevitable. This will have a negative impact on the continuation of the functioning of the school, in which no less than 1,000 [Christian] Palestinians study....You cannot imagine the kind of upheaval which will be provoked among the supporters of this school [in Germany] should they discover that the school premises are used as a battle ground.31

The most glaring example of PA disregard for the holiness of Christian shrines, however, was the April 2002 takeover of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem by PA forces and their taking over 40 Christian clergy and nuns as hostages. As confirmed by a senior Tanzim commander, Abdullah Abu-Hadid, "The idea was to enter the church in order to create international pressure on Israel....We knew beforehand that there was two years' worth of food for 50 monks. Oil, beans, rice, olives. Good bathrooms and the largest wells in old Bethlehem. You didn't need electricity because there were candles. In the yard they planted vegetables. Everything was there."32



The PA Takeover of the Church of the Nativity
On April 2, 2002, as Israel implemented its Defensive Shield operation to combat the Palestinian terrorist infrastructure, in Bethlehem "a number of terrorists took over St. Mary's Church grounds and...held the priest and a number of nuns there against their will. The terrorists used the Church as a firing position, from which they shot at IDF soldiers in the area. The soldiers did not return fire toward the church when fired upon [emphasis added]. An IDF force, under the command of the Bethlehem area regional commander, entered the Church grounds today without battle, in coordination with its leaders, and evacuated the priest and nuns."33

That same day, "More than 100 Palestinian gunmen...[including] soldiers and policemen, entered the Church of the Nativity on Tuesday, as Israeli troops swept into Bethlehem in an attempt to quell violence by Palestinian suicide bombers and militias."34 The actual number of terrorists was between 150 and 180, among them prominent members of the Fatah Tanzim. As the New York Times put it, "Palestinian gunmen have frequently used the area around the church as a refuge, with the expectation that Israel would try to avoid fighting near the shrine" [emphasis added].35

And in fact this was the case. The commander of the Israeli forces in the area asserted that the IDF would not break into the church itself and would not harm this site holy to Christianity. Israel also deployed more mature and more reserved reserve-duty soldiers in this sensitive situation that militarily called for more agile, standing-army soldiers.36

On the other hand, the Palestinians did not treat it the same way. Not only did they take their weapons with them into the Church of the Nativity and fire, on occasion, from the church, but also reportedly booby-trapped the entrance to the church.37

On April 7, "one of the few priests evacuated from the church told Israeli television yesterday that gunmen had shot their way in, and that the priests, monks and nuns were essentially hostages....The priest declined to call the clergy 'hostages,' but repeatedly said in fluent English: 'We have absolutely no choice. They have guns, we do not.'"38

Christians clearly saw the takeover as a violation of the sanctity of the church. In an interview with CWNews, Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran, the Vatican's Undersecretary of State and the top foreign-policy official, asserted that "The Palestinians have entered into bilateral agreements [with the Holy See] in which they undertake to maintain and respect the status quo regarding the Christian holy places and the rights of Christian communities. To explain the gravity of the current situation, let me begin with the fact that the occupation of the holy places by armed men is a violation of a long tradition of law that dates back to the Ottoman era. Never before have they been occupied - for such a lengthy time - by armed men."39 On April 14, he reiterated his position in an interview on Vatican Radio.40

On April 24, the Jerusalem Post reported on the damage that the PA forces were causing:

Three Armenian monks, who had been held hostage by the Palestinian gunmen inside Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, managed to flee the church area via a side gate yesterday morning. They immediately thanked the soldiers for rescuing them.
They told army officers the gunmen had stolen gold and other property, including crucifixes and prayer books, and had caused damage....
One of the monks, Narkiss Korasian, later told reporters: "They stole everything, they opened the doors one by one and stole everything....They stole our prayer books and four crosses...they didn't leave anything. Thank you for your help, we will never forget it."
Israeli officials said the monks said the gunmen had also begun beating and attacking clergymen.41

When the siege finally ended, the PA soldiers left the church in terrible condition:

The Palestinian gunmen holed up in the Church of the Nativity seized church stockpiles of food and "ate like greedy monsters" until the food ran out, while more than 150 civilians went hungry. They also guzzled beer, wine, and Johnnie Walker scotch that they found in priests' quarters, undeterred by the Islamic ban on drinking alcohol. The indulgence lasted for about two weeks into the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out, according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests who were trapped inside for the entire ordeal....
The Orthodox priests and a number of civilians have said the gunmen created a regime of fear.
Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. "Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold," said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.42

A problem that arose during the siege again shows Christian fear of Muslim domination. Two Palestinian gunmen in the church were killed, and the PA wanted to bury them in the basilica. "With two Muslim bodies inside the Church of the Nativity, Christianity could be facing an absolute disaster in Bethlehem," said Canon Andrew White, the special representative of the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Middle East. "It would be catastrophic if two Muslim martyrs were buried in the church. It could lead to a situation like that in Nazareth," he said.43 Only after intensive mediation efforts were plans to bury the bodies inside abandoned.

http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm

[DaveTesla]

And we (Christan's) didn't riot, burn, or kill a soul!

[Goodgirlinred]

That is because we don't demand respect. It is about time that we did.

[DaveTesla]

The PA Takeover Of The Church Of The Nativity

http://www.buffalo-israel-link.org/memri1.htm

On April 2, 2002, as Israel initiated its Defensive Shield
operation to combat the Palestinian terrorist
infrastructure in Bethlehem, "a number of terrorists took
over St. Mary's Church grounds and...held the priest and a
number of nuns there against their will. The terrorists
used the Church as a firing position, from which they shot
at IDF soldiers in the area. The soldiers did not return
fire toward the church when fired upon. [emphasis added]
An IDF force, under the command of the Bethlehem area
regional commander, entered the Church grounds today
without battle, in coordination with its leaders, and
evacuated the priest and nuns."28

That same day, "More than 100 Palestinian gunmen...,
[including] soldiers and policemen, entered the Church of
the Nativity on Tuesday, as Israeli troops swept into
Bethlehem in an attempt to quell violence by Palestinian
suicide bombers and militias."29 The actual number of
terrorists was between 150 and 180, among them prominent
members of the Fatah Tanzim. As the New York Times put
it, "Palestinian gunmen have frequently used the area
around the church as a refuge, with the expectation that
Israel would try to avoid fighting near the shrine."30
[emphasis added]

And in fact this was the case. The commander of the
Israeli forces in the area asserted that the IDF would not
break into the church itself and would not harm this site
holy to Christianity. Israel also deployed more mature and
more reserved reserve-duty soldiers in this sensitive
situation that militarily called for more-agile, standing-
army soldiers.31

The Palestinians, on the other hand, did not treat it the
same way. Not only did they take their weapons with them
into the Church of the Nativity and fire, on occasion,
from the church, but "the entrance to the church is also
heavily booby-trapped."32

On April 7, "one of the few priests evacuated from the
church told Israeli television yesterday that gunmen had
shot their way in, and that the priests, monks and nuns
were essentially hostages...The priest declined to call
the clergy 'hostages,' but repeatedly said in fluent
English: 'We have absolutely no choice. They have guns, we
do not.'"33

Christians clearly saw the takeover as a violation of the
sanctity of the church. In an interview with CWNews,
Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran, the Vatican's Undersecretary
of State and the top foreign-policy official, asserted
that "The Palestinians have entered into bilateral
agreements [with the Holy See] in which they undertake to
maintain and respect the status quo regarding the
Christian holy places and the rights of Christian
communities. To explain the gravity of the current
situation, let me begin with the fact that the occupation
of the holy places by armed men is a violation of a long
tradition of law that dates back to the Ottoman era. Never
before have they been occupied-for such a lengthy time-by
armed men."34 On April 14, he reiterated his position in
an interview on Vatican Radio.35

On April 24, the Jerusalem Post reported on the damage
that the PA forces were causing:

Three Armenian monks, who had been held hostage by the
Palestinian gunmen inside the Bethlehem's Church of the
Nativity, managed to flee the church area via a side gate
yesterday morning. They immediately thanked the soldiers
for rescuing them.

They told army officers the gunmen had stolen gold and
other property, including crucifixes and prayer books, and
had caused damage...

One of the monks, Narkiss Korasian, later told
reporters: "They stole everything, they opened the doors
one by one and stole everything... they stole our prayer
books and four crosses... they didn't leave anything.
Thank you for your help, we will never forget it."
Israeli officials said the monks said the gunmen had also
begun beating and attacking clergymen.36

When the siege finally ended, the PA soldiers left the
church in terrible condition:

The Palestinian gunmen holed up in the Church of the
Nativity [had] seized church stockpiles of food and "ate
like greedy monsters" until the food ran out, while more
than 150 civilians went hungry. They also guzzled beer,
wine and Johnnie Walker scotch that they found in priests'
quarters, undeterred by the Islamic ban on drinking
alcohol. The indulgence lasted for about two weeks into
the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out,
according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests who
were trapped inside for the entire ordeal...

"They should be ashamed of themselves. They acted like
animals, like greedy monsters. Come, I will show you
more," said one priest, who declined to give his name. He
gestured toward empty bottles of beer and hundreds of
cigarette butts strewn on the floor. The priest then took
the reporters to see computers taken apart and a
television set dismantled for use as a hiding place for
weapons...

"You can see what repayment we got for 'hosting' these so-
called guests," said Archbishop Ironius, as he showed
reporters the main reception hall of the Greek Orthodox
Monastery...
The Orthodox priests and a number of civilians have said
the gunmen created a regime of fear.
Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was
evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic
priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet
paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were
removed. "Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything
that looked like gold," said a Franciscan, the Rev.
Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.37
A problem that arose during the siege again shows
Christian fear of Muslim domination. Two Palestinian
gunmen in the church were killed, and the PA wanted to
bury them in the basilica. For Christians, this was a
potential "absolute disaster."

[DaveTesla]

http://www.catholicherald.com/articles/02articles/siege613.htm

Normally, Father George is organist and assistant pastor
assigned to St. Catherine of Alexandria Church, which is
connected to the Church of the Nativity complex. He
was
one of two American friars caught in the siege. One
Mexican sacristan has been there for 20 years and a
Spanish priest since the mid-1980s.
Father Nicholas Marquez had just arrived in December 2001.

[DaveTesla]

ping

[nopardons]

bttt

[little jeremiah]

I read this earlier - I'll ping it out tomorrow. Don't have the heart to now.

I like to read something inspirational before I go to sleep...

G'night!

[agere_contra]

That is because we don't demand respect. It is about time that we did.

No, I don't think it's because of that. Christ was nailed to the cross and didn't demand respect. This is the difference between Islam and Christianity - Christ.

[cyborg]

The bible toilet paper is news to me. You're right. They're destroying churches in the Balkans, nevermind PEOPLE. Also, desecrating churches in Nigeria and Pakistan. They had a fit when christians actually fought back in Nigeria. they like it when we're spineless :(

[Goodgirlinred]

Well, I did not mean that we should riot and kill people. However, shouldn't we let them know that our faith is important to us and that their desecration of our churches, Bibles, etc. are insulting to us as Christians?

[Conservative Firster]

BUMP