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Boomers have paid their dues to society
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 5/18/05 | Jan Murray

Posted on 05/18/2005 10:06:08 AM PDT by qam1

Jan Murray believes boomers are right to demand your money.

I am having trouble empathising with the bleating about whose taxes will fund the ageing baby-boomer bunch in the near future. Such mean-hearted tripe. Such chutzpah - the high-chair set having a hissy fit just thinking about the load it's going to have to bear.

So, who started it and how do we stop it is what I want to know. I feel like digging out my pewter jewellery and hurling it at the next Generation-X pet who complains that his or her taxes will be supporting the likes of me because I haven't been clever enough to save for my Zimmer frame.

OK, so a decent slice of your taxes are going to have to keep us in the style we invented and will insist upon while there's breath in our used, abused (and increasingly refused) bodies. Pardon us for making up 39.76 per cent of the population.

Let's just hold that thought while I run through a few home truths.

Imagine a world without teenagers. Who invented the phenomenon? We did. The adolescent baby boomers were the social malcontents of the 50s who cut loose from the oppressive ruck and insisted on being recognised as individuals with a right to be listened to, marketed to and feared by a conservative Yesterday because we were Tomorrow - our own tomorrow, and yours.

Imagine if we had not rebelled. Elvis would have been sent back to his mum to have his mouth washed out. He would still be singing gospel in some clapboard church in Memphis, telling his grandkids how a rush of blood to his head a long time ago made him do some foolish things with his hips.

Look at it this way: the money you've been saving on dentistry - because we gave you flouride in your drinking water - is the equivalent of the tax rise you'll need to come up with on our behalf.

Between sorting my vinyls and renovating my sea-change home, I pause to wonder: why all the ingratitude and grumbling resentment? Should we have left off trying to make this a better world? Should we have just climbed the corporate ladders and left the multinationals to rip down the trees and put in their car parks?

I haven't even touched the 'f' word. This fight alone would be reason enough to drop a donation in as we pass the hat around. I'm not talking flares and fondue, either. Of course the boomers gave the world them. Just as we gave it fast-food, rock'n'roll, heart transplants, aerobics, tantric sex and the F-111. OK, so the Concorde proved to be a dud and the AK-47 was nasty, the multi-function polis never eventuated and body shirts were neither here nor there. But imagine a world without tampons, child care and equal wages.

Yes, I'm talking about feminism. Boomers went in hard on that one, and the Gen -ers who hold up half the sky today need to be reminded with each pay cheque. But that's an argument for another day. Why not just pay up and do it with a smile? Life's too short for hassles, man. Dig?


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: 2ndrategeneration; allaboutmegeneration; babyboomers; boomerbromide; boomeronacid; genitsallaboutme; genx; greedygeezers; megeneration; puke; selfishgeneration; socialsecurity; stealingthefuture; takeallyoucan
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To: k2blader
You have no idea what an idiot you are. Educated or not!
141 posted on 05/23/2005 8:07:51 PM PDT by poobear
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To: HungarianGypsy

Not so, have him check the tax attorney. An independant contractor must pay ALL FICA and FED withholilding. Sorry.


142 posted on 05/23/2005 8:12:01 PM PDT by poobear
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To: stands2reason

OK, nothing tackier than a clueless dolt who stumbles onto a thread 5 days late. Is that bravely in your clueless dolt face enough?


143 posted on 05/23/2005 9:55:04 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: ozzymandus

OMG! I violated the Time Limit! (/sarcasm)

The last comments on it were current, I'm afraid.

Glad to see you can insult people directly! Good for you.


144 posted on 05/23/2005 10:37:34 PM PDT by stands2reason (It's 2005, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: stands2reason

Thank you very much.


145 posted on 05/23/2005 10:39:20 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: JeffersonRepublic.com
America has been through many wars, and we have lost millions of lives through fighting. Yet no other generation has demanded such high benefits as the baby boomers.

Exactly what benefits have Boomers demanded?

146 posted on 05/24/2005 4:33:42 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Wombat101

Well, I am a bit older than a boomer but yall best not forget that we have big, big estates. Better be nice to us, you hear now?


147 posted on 05/24/2005 4:36:05 AM PDT by cajungirl ({no})
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To: cajungirl

Not unless I'm in the will, Sugarshorts...


148 posted on 05/24/2005 4:40:19 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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To: JeffersonRepublic.com
America has been through many wars, and we have lost millions of lives through fighting.

Through all 229 years, the total count far under 1 million KIA.

149 posted on 05/24/2005 4:41:33 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Wombat101

That is real sweet, calling me sugarshorts. I like it.

Aren't you in some boomer's will? Most young people are. You see yall think we are all "using it up" and taking it all. We have been in a way, I agree with that. But most of us are "hoarding" for the next two generations.

So a huge transfer of money is going to occur in the next thirty odd years from us pre boomers and boomers to our children and theirs. Our kids will be in their fifties for the most part and will be prudent with it and with their children's part.

I do think that will solidify a chasm in American life between the haves and the have nots and for that reason think repeal of the estate tax may be a bad thing. My children and grandchildren won't support that however anticipating dividing the spoils and Grannie and Gramps pass over.


150 posted on 05/24/2005 4:55:25 AM PDT by cajungirl ({no})
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To: Ditto

Okay, let's demolish your argument one point at a time...

56,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and that was tragedy, yes. Of course, they wouldn't have died in vain if their colleagues hadn't been rioting in the streets and rooting for the other side. Then again, perhaps if the boomers had had any sense whatsoever, they would have made a concious effort to get Kennedy and Johnson to end the damn thing as soon as possible, with victory.

Instead, boomers take credit for "ending an unjust war" that saw more more people killed after it was over. BTW, my father served two tours of duty in Vietnam (1966,1968) and was at Khe Sahn (26th Marines). I'm fourth generation military myself.

Boomers are so proud that they fought "the establishment", until, of course they became the establishment themselves and forgot all about the summer of love. Once they grew up they realized that money was, of course, a vital necessity. Amazing what happens when you are forced to face reality.

As for a rising stock market, considering that between 1945 and about 1970, this was the only industrial country that had not been bombed flat, or under direct threat of invasion by the meancing Red Hoardes, the US was in the unusual position of supplying virtually all manufactured goods for the other 4/5th of the globe. We also produced a significant proportion of our own energy and raw materials at that time. By the way, I've worked on Wall Street for the last 20 years and the stock market is a load of crap. Your average stock broker is little more than a licensed bookie in an expensive suit and numbers can always be made to lie (just ask the Federal Gub'mint or Enron --- both run by boomers, no less).

The "rising" stock market has occured during a time in which real wages have sunk, people work longer hours for less return, we've had inflated prices and returns in speculative "bubbles" (tech, biotech, and now real estate), and the introduction of the 401(k) (which by the way, was invented by someone from the WWII generation). In the meantime, every attempt to restore some semblance of reality to economics has been thwarted by baby boomers. We do not live in a free market society anymore, unless you deal in pornography, prostitution or illicit narcotics. Our grandparents won WWII, but Nazi-style economics and government-run industry survived.

Right now, we live in a world where the price of oil continues to rise, further strangling economic growth, in part because the Boomers refused to accept nuclear power. They feared what they did not understand. The same people went ahead and made various areas of uninhabtable land safe for caribou and spotted owls and such, while untapped energy lies just underground. Right now, the United States Military turns out hundred ofqualified nuclear engineers who could be working ater their service, running small, clean and powerful plants that will keep boomers from dying in the summer heat, like elderly folks do in France. The self-same boomers made welfare a self-perpetuating prophecy, creating a new plantation in the heart of American cities, while marching for civil rights to salve their souls. The same boomers removed the societal stigmas attached to out-of-wedlock births, unwed mothers, homosexuality, drug use, etc, etc, etc, until we now live in a country where practically every day, someone sues someone for the right to marry his daschund.

Your generation is full of such sophomoric contradictions: claiming credit for a "robust" ecomony that creates nothing other than cigarettes and Doritos (check Wal-Mart, everything else comes from Chima), having the "courage to speak truth to power" about Vietnam and Civil Rights when you did nothing of the sort. The worst boomer excess has to be the argument that says that simply because you will live to be twice the age of your grandparents generation that you must be paid simply for being alive.

Listen, I don't begrudge anyone anything they're entitled to by rights. I do have a probem, however, with people taking advantage of a system that would get any Italian slapped with a RICO statute -- the Ponzi scheme of Social Security.

So here's what I would propose -- you can have whatever you paid into the system, in cash, with a modicum of interest, in a lump sum. however, you cannot do anything with that money except put it into some retirement account or some concrete investment. The onus to save for your reclining years will now be squarely on you. We then exempt you and your employer from having to pay SS taxes on your behalf, and the rest of us whippersnappers won't have to support you in your golden years of chasing blue plate specials and playing the nickle slots in Atlantic City. We then give my generation at least half of what we've paid in and get rid of the SS tax, unless people still want to opt in. I know more about how to invest it than the government or my "investment specialist" does.

Then Social Secrity dies the death that all socialist-inspired schemes deserve to, you get to build that nest eggg that will fund your respirator and cemetary plot, and for which your children will be more than happy to fight over when you've shuffled off this mortal coil. That, of course, assumes they don't decide to pull the plug for you. I, of course, get to keep more of what I rightfully earned and your grubby hands are out of my pockets.


151 posted on 05/24/2005 5:23:48 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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To: cajungirl

I was born in 1967, so my parents are the boomers. I'm too late to be a boomer and to early to be Gen X'er. So, I'm surrounded on side by a whining group of greedy bastards who believe they accomplished something in the 60's on one side, and on the other, the next geeneration of over-indulged idiots who couldn't find their own behinds with both hands and a road map.

One sucks the lifeblood from me and the other will be running things when I'm on the far side of the hill. Considering the possibilities, tell me why I shouldn't be concerned for my future?


152 posted on 05/24/2005 5:27:53 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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To: cajungirl

BTW, my parents squandered whatever they had. I'm not worried about being in anyone's will because I've always looked out for myself and worked for myself. Perhaps if more people had that kind of idea we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.


153 posted on 05/24/2005 5:29:57 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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To: Syco
This generation did more damage to society than the three or four generations before them...

Horsecrap.

We didn't invent the income tax.
We didn't invent socialist security.
We didn't invent the "Great Society".
We didn't start wars in Korea and Viet Nam - and in the latter piss away 50,000 lives for NOTHING.
Walter Cronkite and his other socialistic pimp cronies aren't from our generation.

If you're an X'er born in 1965, you're FORTY now. Exactly what have you done to right wrongs in America ?

Meanwhile Boomers have paid taxes out the rear end to support welfare parasites (fostered by the "Greatest Generation") and the other socialist schemes passed by the Greatest Generation.

Beating up on the Boomers may make you feel good, but it's ignorant.

154 posted on 05/24/2005 5:40:27 AM PDT by jimt
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To: Wombat101
56,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and that was tragedy, yes. Of course, they wouldn't have died in vain if their colleagues hadn't been rioting in the streets and rooting for the other side. Then again, perhaps if the boomers had had any sense whatsoever, they would have made a concious effort to get Kennedy and Johnson to end the damn thing as soon as possible, with victory.

Instead, boomers take credit for "ending an unjust war" that saw more more people killed after it was over. BTW, my father served two tours of duty in Vietnam (1966,1968) and was at Khe Sahn (26th Marines). I'm fourth generation military myself.

Pretty obvious that a generation of Dan Rather style propaganda has sunk deeply into you and you have nothing but Hollywood images of what your parents generation was about. A few thousand Boomers went to Canada. More than 5 million served in the US military like your dad. I don't even know of one Boomer who "protested" the war. For every maggot infested commie hippie on the streets, there were thousands who supported their country. For every leftist media hyped Jane Fonda, there were hundreds of nameless Boomers who hated her guts and who put Ronald Reagan in office and then turned a half century of leftist congressional rule into what looks to be a permanent Conservative majority. That was only possible because of Boomers. It wasn't the "Greatest Generation" that did it. I know those people very well. They were my parents generation and they worshiped at the temple of FDR and the Democrat Party and a great many of them have never done anything other than pull the straight Democrat lever.

As to Social Security, if you are capable of simple addition, you will understand that not even one Boomer is eligible for it now, and none will be for another few years. It's the so-called Greatest Generation who were loyal to the Democrat party who demanded all the increased benefits. It's been the Boomers who have paid for those increased benefits for their entire careers and who realized long ago that Social Security was a Ponzi Scheme that would never take care of them. Those of us who had the means have planned for our own retirement and again, I don't know any who are counting on Social Security. (I'd advise you not to count on it either, privatized or not --- save and invest all you can, and then some more.)

Some more advice. Don't look to Hollywood for history.

Oh, I have got to comment on this as well.

Right now, we live in a world where the price of oil continues to rise, further strangling economic growth, in part because the Boomers refused to accept nuclear power. They feared what they did not understand.

I spent to first 20 years of my career in the nuclear power industry and support it 100%. But please Dr. Einstein, tell the class how building more nuclear plants will do anything to decrease oil demand in this country.

Again, you go off on simplistic rants with little or no knowledge. But then again, you are young, and pretty much clueless.

155 posted on 05/24/2005 7:16:14 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine

They're not done yet. They will give us the most extreme types of fetal tissue research, organ harvesting, cloning and advanced cryogenics. Death rightly terrifies them.


156 posted on 05/24/2005 7:58:20 AM PDT by Dionysius
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To: Ditto

SImplistic? I doubt it. I hold a degree in history and run a multi-billion dollar data processing complex for a Fortune 100 firm.

I served on two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in my 8 years (full-time and reserve) in the Navy. Both ships had reactors about the size of double-decker bus, and were capable of creating enough electricty to light Chicago for 25 years. There was no need to burn oil, there was no need to deal with greenhouse gasses or noxious fumes. Not much in the way of equipment needed to be lubricated as compared to an older diesel-fired plant.

The Navy, incidentally, has been handling nuclear reactors for five decades now, with an exemplary safety record. Much better than Exxon's or BP's I might add.

As for propaganda, according to Dan and his bunch, the war was a crime against humanity and the United Sates was evil-evil-evil for even being involved. My take: we needed to be there, but we needed to win. The troops on the ground were not allowed to win, and much of it had to do with the situation at home. Any increase in US force or use of force brought the rioters out. You may not know one protester, but I would wager that's more along the lines of soomeone hiding their irresponsibility and stupidity from you. Were it was once fashionable to protest, it is now looked upon a bad form for having been a protester. I doubt very highly that you have never in your life ever made an acquaintance who held anti-Vietnam sympathies.

And please, do not take credit for the Reagan Revolution. The people who voted for Reagan were very much of your parents generation as much as they were yours.

As fo rthe hubub over social security, when the present recipients die, the problem is half solved: most fo the resistance ot reform has come from those raised during the Depression and they have an emotional attachment to FDR and his programs. The other half of the solution will happen when all those born before 1965 realize they shouldn't be so selfish as to believe they should get something for nothing, like their parents did in their later years.

As for simple addition, if you were born in 1946, you would now be 59 years old, and eleigible under certain circumstances for early retirement (under the 75/25 rule), and begin collecting social security within a few years, at least prior to 67. The rest of us would have to retire at 67 before we began to collect anything.


157 posted on 05/24/2005 8:01:17 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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To: Wombat101
Both ships had reactors about the size of double-decker bus, and were capable of creating enough electricty to light Chicago for 25 years.

Bulls**t bub. A Navy reactor couldn't light Chicago for 25 seconds.

And answer the damn question. How would more reactors decrease our demand for oil?

158 posted on 05/24/2005 8:06:25 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian

Algore's a boomer; he invented everything.


159 posted on 05/24/2005 8:06:28 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert (Texas Cowboy...you da man!!)
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To: Wombat101
The other half of the solution will happen when all those born before 1965 realize they shouldn't be so selfish as to believe they should get something for nothing, like their parents did in their later years.

15% of every paycheck for the last 35 years is hardly "nothing", but as I sid, I have planned for nearly that long on not ever seeing any of it.

160 posted on 05/24/2005 8:08:55 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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