GUN CULTURE THREATENS DEMOCRACY : Gun lobby threatens our very way of life

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence ^ | May 13 | Josh Horowitz

[Dan from Michigan]

CSGV: GUN CULTURE THREATENS DEMOCRACY

Op-Ed Challenges "Guns Equal Freedom" Formula

Gun lobby threatens our very way of life

The price extracted by guns is simply too high

By JOSH HORWITZ
SPECIAL TO THE REVIEW-JOURNAL

When the National Rifle Association's top lobbyist, Wayne LaPierre, addresses the crowd at "FreedomFest 2005" at the Bally's/Paris Resort in Las Vegas today, he will be preaching a message that has served his organization well: guns equal freedom.

As LaPierre puts it, "The Second Amendment is the fulcrum of freedom in our nation, because freedom and the Second Amendment are mutually interdependent. They are the 'chicken and the egg;' neither can exist without the other."

LaPierre can expect a friendly reception from the right wing activists at FreedomFest. Aggressive support for gun rights provokes none of the intramural squabbling that sometimes threatens to divide social conservatives and their libertarian allies in the GOP.

By framing the gun debate as a choice between protecting liberty and the illusion of safety, the gun lobby has painted itself as a defender of basic American values.

Too often, gun control advocates walk into the trap and concede that values like democracy and independence must be sacrificed to fight gun crime.

"At what point will Americans agree that the price exacted by guns -- the gun lobby's 'price of freedom' -- is simply too high?" asks Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center.

This formulation is not smart politics, because Americans rightly treasure freedom. More importantly, it fails to hold LaPierre and the gun lobby accountable for a philosophy that is at odds with freedom and the institutions that support it.

The most recent example of the tension came last month, when Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a bill that allows people to use deadly force -- including guns -- when faced with a violent threat, even when a confrontation could be avoided by simply walking away. The new law goes far beyond self-defense, which was already a well-established right in Florida, to invite vigilantes to substitute their judgment for the judicial system.

David Kopel, a leading gun rights theorist, acknowledges the potential tension between an expansive right of self defense like the one embodied in the new Florida statute and the rule of law, but dismisses the concern out of hand, arguing that "people's taking the law into their own hands has always been a core principle of the American legal system, and the American attitude toward guns is simply one manifestation of that principle."

This warped conception of popular sovereignty is at the root of the most egregious anti- democratic proposition advanced by the gun lobby: that citizens need to arm themselves to safeguard political liberties against threats by the government.

Kopel has called guns "the tools of political dissent," and LaPierre wrote in 1994 that "the people have a right, must have a right, to take whatever measures necessary, including force, to abolish oppressive government."

As famed legal scholar Roscoe Pound observed, however, "A legal right of the citizen to wage war on the government is something that cannot be admitted. ... [because] bearing arms today is a very different thing from what it was in the days of the embattled farmers who withstood the British in 1775. In the urban industrial society of today a general right to bear arms so as to be able to resist oppression by the Government would mean that gangs could defeat the whole Bill of Rights."

The standoffs at Ruby Ridge and Waco -- often cited as proof that the government can and does abuse its power -- illustrate why armed resistance is a dead end. Randy Weaver and David Koresh may have had good reasons to distrust the government, but they had no right to use private arsenals to keep the police at bay. Our system includes democratic safeguards, such as juries, that do not rely on the private force of arms.

After the Oklahoma City bombing, the gun lobby toned down its rhetoric, casting an armed citizenry as a deterrent to oppression rather than a potential rebel force against a democratic government. "The Second Amendment is America's first freedom because it is the one right that protects all the others," LaPierre says.

This argument sounds reasonable but is no different in substance that what gun rights absolutists were saying before Oklahoma City. If they believe in the right to take up arms to resist government policies they consider oppressive, even when these policies have been adopted by elected officials and subjected to review by an independent judiciary, then they are opposed to constitutional democracy.

When LaPierre talks about guns and freedom, he wraps himself in a flag that the NRA is simultaneously ripping to shreds. Protecting vigilantes from criminal prosecution and urging citizens to stockpile weapons for a showdown with the government are more than just threats to public safety -- they are threats to our democracy and our way of life.

[Bostton1]

You may say I need a tinfoil hat, but I don't want to be in the NRA member registry, in case something ever happens.

[dbwz]

Randy Weaver and David Koresh may have had good reasons to distrust the government, but they had no right to use private arsenals to keep the police at bay.

OK, wait a minute... so does this mean that we have no right to defend ourselves against a government that would do something to us to inspire distrust?

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

And the really ironic thing is that lefties are consistent critics of both law enforcement and military in any discussion not having to do with gun control.

[goldstategop]

In a time when women pack heat, I don't know what to make of metrosexual guys who are afraid of guns.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Sofa King]

"If they believe in the right to take up arms to resist government policies they consider oppressive, even when these policies have been adopted by elected officials and subjected to review by an independent judiciary, then they are opposed to constitutional democracy."

Funny... because you're the ones advocating something that the actual constitution explicitly forbids. Liberals sure do like to talk about the constitution, but only in vauge reference and never in actual substance.

[TheWriterTX]

Your response is...quite simply...perfect.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Just call 'em wusses. It works fine.

[goldstategop]

Yep. They don't like a lawfully armed government either. They hate cops and they hate soldiers with an equal passion. If you asked them a situation in which force can be lawfully employed, they probably couldn't think of one. Yep, they're consistent there.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[JerseyHighlander]

I think this is a good article. It demonstrably shows the lack of depth and understanding, absence of common sense and knowledge of the history of the country, the CSGV has on the American landscape.

These people have nothing to stand on, and are busy noodling with symantics to prove high convoluted talking points, turning off anyone who has a ounce of self respect. There is no way this can be described as 'inspiring' punditry, it barely musters a response by pro-RKBA activists, it's so utterly senseless it doesn't create any response, even after reading it, it won't exist in the minds of those who read it in a few days time. I'm already forgetting it. I remember this author runs this group, they must be the most dull and witless bunch of people in the DC beltway. How can you publish articles where the only half lucid point is based on a well documented case of government entrapment?

Who donates to this guy's organization, they must be complete fools. This huckster can't even publish a decent 800 word article. Wonder how well he pays himself.

[goldstategop]

Hahahaha - which one? The one in which judicial tyrants have overruled the will of the people? The one institution the Left loathes these days is the ballot box cause they keep losing elections. And please don't go on about the rule of law and constitutional democracy.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[garandgal]

They have a national gun registry in Canada but the compliance rate is abysmal. One can be imposed here only over the dead bodies of the American people.

Oh, I agree with you entirely! I'm just saying the sudden "realization" that we have gangs here seems as though it's a precursor for "they could overthrow our government if we don't get rid of the guns!" hysteria. Note, they say nothing about getting rid of the GANGS themselves...LOL!

You know how these people are....someone throws out a bizarre idea and they all run with it.

[Tax Government]

When the NRA is or becomes an advocacy group -- and not just a gun-owners' group -- then it will have achieved its purpose.

[The_Macallan]

"This warped conception of popular sovereignty is at the root of the most egregious anti- democratic proposition advanced by the gun lobby: that citizens need to arm themselves to safeguard political liberties against threats by the government."

Yeah, these are some people with some really "warped" ideas:

"I carried it (a revolver) religiously and during the summer I asked a friend, a man who had been one of Franklin's bodyguards in New York State, to give me some practice in target shooting so that if the need arose I would know how to use the gun."
~ Eleanore Roosevelt, from her autobiography.

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
~ John F. Kennedy, March 20, 1961.

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."
~ John F. Kennedy, April 1960.

"The Second Amendment isn't about protecting ourselves against criminals. It's about all of us protecting ourselves from all of you."
~ Dr. Suzanne Gratia, a survivor of the Killeen, Texas Luby's massacre speaking to Congressman Charles Schumer (D-NY) while testifying before Congress, 1994.

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."
~ Hubert Humphrey, from "Know Your Lawmakers, Guns," Feb. 1960, p. 4

"There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people had not been 'brainwashed' about gun ownership and they had been well armed. Hitler's thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made asses out of the Nazi's."
~ Theodore Haas, former prisoner of the Nazi's Dachau concentration camp.

"And today, when I am asked that question, I tell people it doesn't matter whether you're Hungarian, Polish, Jewish, or German: If you don't have a gun, you have nothing."
~ Menashe Lorinczi, Auschwitz survivor on why Jews didn't resist in Auschwitz.

"Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation."
~ James Madison,

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property."
~ Thomas Paine,

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes"
~ Thomas Jefferson,

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
~ Thomas Jefferson,

---

It's Not Just A Gun...

It's My "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE"!!

[dbwz]

If you asked them a situation in which force can be lawfully employed, they probably couldn't think of one.

Ah, but there is one good use for cops and soldiers in their eyes - putting the kibosh on citizens with "private arsenals".

They sure know how to keep your head spinning, don't they?

[oldenuff2no]

What everyone keeps stepping around is that the Liberals can not impose socialism on us if we are armed. The absolute goal of the liberals in this country is the imposition of a socialist government on all of us. An armed society makes this impossible. They have to disarm us to complete their goals. They will tell any lie, and twist any truth to achieve their dream of a Socialist America. Our duty to our grandchildren is to stop this by what ever means necessary. Lock and load

[claudiustg]

This talk may go over in New York City, but out here in Montana things are a bit different. You don't want to mess with our pickups and rifles! And you can keep your Eastern liberal nose out of our religious practices too!

[SpaceBar]

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA — ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."

-Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

If you fear being on a registration list, then join the National Rifle Association with a new chosen alias.

[spinestein]

[As famed legal scholar Roscoe Pound observed, however, "A legal right of the citizen to wage war on the government is something that cannot be admitted. ... [because] bearing arms today is a very different thing from what it was in the days of the embattled farmers who withstood the British in 1775. In the urban industrial society of today a general right to bear arms so as to be able to resist oppression by the Government would mean that gangs could defeat the whole Bill of Rights."]


Judging by this bilge, I would say that "famed legal scholar Roscoe Pound" is only famous because he makes people laugh.

[Tabi Katz]

The most recent example of the tension came last month, when Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a bill that allows people to use deadly force -- including guns -- when faced with a violent threat, even when a confrontation could be avoided by simply walking away.

He's right. Imagine, those backward Bushes have gotten the crazy idea that people actually have the right to defend themselves! If I am ever confronted by an armed robber or rapist, instead of using force I will beg him to spare me while I await help from the Almighty government. No thug would want to harm me if I fell to his feet crying hard enough . /liberal "logic"

[decal]

Mr Horowitz might want to have a chat with the woman from OKC:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1406498/posts

In fact, I'd help pay part of the cost to see it happen.

You're a FINE single malt, btw...