[VadeRetro]

The issue isn't whether there was a first cause and did its name start with a G. The issue is whether there is a lawful universe that apparently runs without miracles, and, if so, should some people who prefer miracles be allowed to misrepresent the evidence. I mean, we're talking about people who can't even quote honestly.

[flevit]

we are talking about fallible humans, both sides, I am not getting into the tit for tat.


all you have done is push back "miracles" in time. "laws" (lawgiver??), "life" (life giver). to the point where you can rationalize away a miracle subtitute it with "first cause" and suggest its not about it. however, if a first cause miracle can happen, whould there be any reason for there not to be more.