Just Give Me That Old-time Atheism!

Toronto Star ^ | May 23, 2005 | Salman Rushdie

[Right Wing Professor]

Atheists believe there is no God

There is a difference between not believing there is a God, and believing there is no God. Many atheists are in the former category.

[Raycpa]

THe how doesn't explain the why.

[Raycpa]

But since you posted the point, would you call 'not believing in a god', "atheism"?

No. It isn't what I said.

[Raycpa]

-a=g, not believing there is a God

a=-g, and believing there is no God

Aren't these the same expression?

[Tribune7]

Atheism is a belief system just as the various theistic religions are belief systems So if I have no interest in baseball, I'm a baseball fan just as if I followed the Red Sox or the Yankees?

Everybody has a belief system that addresses the big questions.

[beavus]

THe how doesn't explain the why.

"Why" presupposes that there is volitional intent. The ability to ask such a question cannot therefore be an argument that such a will exists, or the reasoning would be circular.

However, I can agree, for other reasons, that there is a "why" for specific instances. For instance, Why does music exist? Because it brings people pleasure, and pleasure is a volitional motive.

That is why I answered you the way I did.

[beavus]

There is a difference between not believing there is a God, and believing there is no God. Many atheists are in the former category.

So somebody who accurately states, "I don't believe in any gods", is not necessarily an atheist?

[beavus]

-a=g, not believing there is a God a=-g, and believing there is no God Aren't these the same expression?

No. You need predicate logic. Roughly, ~B(g) is not equivalent to B(~g), where "B" = "believes" and "g" = "some god (exists)". The question is, would you label either of these as "atheism"?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

This rather superficial article misses the real complexity and depth of religion, falling back on a false dichotomy. It's true, as Lord Acton would acknowledge, that the spiritual realm holds many dangers and the potential for abuse of power. But one needs to guard against overgeneralization. The negative influences that creep into religious institutions can be found in secular corporations, non-religious universities, governments, the military, and organizations dedicated to secular ideologies like liberalism, socialism, communism, etc. Cult phenomena are not limited to the spiritual estate proper. The MSM debases the spiritual realm with its twisted and distorted approach to the topic.

[Raycpa]

The absence of an answer for why love exists is a problem for atheism.

[Raycpa]

The question is, would you label either of these as "atheism"?

My world view on theism and atheism: We are born with clean slates. Through our exposure in the world our senses receive evidence. Evidence includes what we sense from our senses and what witnesses tell us. Based on this evidence when it comes to God, we conclude 1 of three things. We conclude there is a God. We conclude there is no God. We conclude we want more evidence.

[Raycpa]

No. You need predicate logic. Roughly, ~B(g) is not equivalent to B(~g), where "B" = "believes" and "g" = "some god (exists)".

Relabeling equivalent terms isn't helping me understand the distinction.

[Right Wing Professor]

-a=g, not believing there is a God

a=-g, and believing there is no God

Aren't these the same expression?

No. You can not believe Michael Jackson is guilty, and also not believe he's innocent. You could have no belief on the subject at all.

(Of course, he's guitty as hell)

[Right Wing Professor]

Everybody has a belief system that addresses the big questions

It's an honor to meet the spokesperson for all of humanity.

[Right Wing Professor]

So somebody who accurately states, "I don't believe in any gods", is not necessarily an atheist?

I would call that person an atheist. I've never been sold on creating different flavors of atheism and agnosticism. Doctrinal hair-splitting is an execrise I've very happy to leave to the religious.

[balrog666]

Not believing Elvis lives is a religion too. You have to have a lot of faith NOT to believe Elvis lives.

Do not disparage the Cult of the Elvii, unbeliever!

[beavus]

The absence of an answer for why love exists is a problem for atheism.

How so?

[beavus]

Relabeling equivalent terms isn't helping me understand the distinction.

Sorry, I guess you don't understand. I wasn't relabelling equivalent terms. I was just showing you using elementary predicate symbolic logic why 'believing not' and 'not believing' are not equivalent. You needn't take my word for it. It is a typical example given in introductory texts.

[Tribune7]

Everybody has a belief system that addresses the big questions . . . It's an honor to meet the spokesperson for all of humanity.

LOL. And how is my statement wrong, pray tell?

[beavus]

BILL: So somebody who accurately states, "I don't believe in any gods", is not necessarily an atheist?

TED: I would call that person an atheist. I've never been sold on creating different flavors of atheism and agnosticism. Doctrinal hair-splitting is an execrise I've very happy to leave to the religious.

So absence of belief in any gods is "atheism"?