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Just Give Me That Old-time Atheism!
Toronto Star ^ | May 23, 2005 | Salman Rushdie

Posted on 06/04/2005 3:57:12 AM PDT by MississippiMasterpiece

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To: Right Wing Professor
TED: So absence of belief in any gods is "atheism"?

BILL: By my definition, yes.

So a baby is an atheist? A dog is an atheist? A rock is an atheist? They all have an absence of belief in any gods.

61 posted on 06/04/2005 9:15:08 PM PDT by beavus
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To: lemura
Fixed it for you: "You have to have alot of faith NOT to believe in God Santa Claus (or Zuess, Thor, et al).

This is supposed to be a wise retort, I guess...?

62 posted on 06/05/2005 4:17:15 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: beavus

"So a baby is an atheist? A dog is an atheist? A rock is an atheist? They all have an absence of belief in any gods."

We are all born atheists until someone teaches us to believe in a particular God. A rock cannot be an atheist because it has no consciousness, no beliefs at all. A dog has consciousness, but I doubt it is capable of forming the concept of a god. The question is beyond them, and quite meaningless to their existence.


63 posted on 06/05/2005 6:32:29 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman (There is a grandeur in this view of life....)
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To: beavus
So a baby is an atheist? A dog is an atheist? A rock is an atheist? They all have an absence of belief in any gods.

Don't be idiotic. We were obviously discussing human beings with the mental capacity to think about htemselves and the world. One might as easily describe rocks as unemployed, since they don't have a job.

My new-years resolution was to avoid discussions with juveniles. Goodbye.

64 posted on 06/05/2005 6:54:48 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Tribune7
That's the belief system of a materialist -- one who claims that the atoms in your body -- and only the atoms -- are you, no soul, nothing eternal.

The 'only' is yours, not mine. Putting words in my mouth is obnoxious.

I said we decompose. Do you deny that?

65 posted on 06/05/2005 6:57:31 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: MississippiMasterpiece
I agree. I do not believe in God but I believe in Man. And to believe in Man means to believe in Life.

I'm not against Religions. I'm just too young to believe that I can't do my life by myself.
66 posted on 06/05/2005 6:58:57 AM PDT by an italian (God bless all the b in the world... Bush, Berlusconi and Blair...)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
We are all born atheists

A reasonable view I think. It distinguishes "atheist" from "antitheist".

A rock cannot be an atheist because it has no consciousness, no beliefs at all.

Seems here to be a matter of semantics rather than principle. You stipulate, "Let's only apply the term 'atheist' to things with consciousness or beliefs". But, the principle of being without something is unchanged whether you are a thinking person, or a rock.

For example: you are without a belief in the "Rungu-Witau transmutation inception". In every way that matters, your absence of that belief is equivalent to a rock's absence of that belief.

Just illustrating the significance of being without some belief.

67 posted on 06/05/2005 8:54:12 AM PDT by beavus
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To: Right Wing Professor
Goodbye.

Say it like you mean it, Chuckles!

We were obviously discussing human beings with the mental capacity to think about htemselves and the world. One might as easily describe rocks as unemployed, since they don't have a job.

Don't be so frustrated at your thoughtlessness. You're not the first pigheaded "professor" I've run into.

The point of being without a belief, is that it is devoid of any use of those human faculties you describe. Your lack of belief, say 10 minutes ago, in the Schory-Rubenstein hypothesis, is a fact. It also was completely devoid and irrelevent of your mental capacity, small as it is. Absence of belief has NOTHING to do with consciousness. It is presence of belief that makes use of consciousness.

So the illustration of the rock, which was lost on you, was to make precisely this point. The specific point of not having a belief is same in every way that matters whether it be a person who doesn't have it, or a rock.

68 posted on 06/05/2005 9:06:37 AM PDT by beavus
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To: Right Wing Professor
I said we decompose.

Our bodies most certainly do, but are we our bodies?

69 posted on 06/05/2005 11:27:19 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
Our bodies most certainly do, but are we our bodies?

Most of us value a person much more for the things he has done than for his biology. Surely, then, a person's history makes up a big part of how we define that person.

70 posted on 06/05/2005 4:51:36 PM PDT by beavus
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To: Tribune7; Right Wing Professor
"Our bodies most certainly do, but are we our bodies?"

I like CS Lewis's approach to this question:

"I am Ramandu. But I see that you stare at one another and have not heard this name. And no wonder, for the days when I was a star had ceased long before any of you knew this world, and all the constellations have changed."..."Aren't you a star any longer?" asked Lucy..."I am a star at rest my daughter," answered Ramandu...

"In our world," said Eustace, "a star is huge ball of flaming gas."

"Even in your world my son, that is not what a star is, but only what it is made of...."

- Voyage of the Dawn Treader

71 posted on 06/05/2005 5:04:16 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack

Very nice.


72 posted on 06/06/2005 10:09:55 AM PDT by beavus
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