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Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records (Navy provided them to Boston Globe)
boston Globe ^ | June 7, 2005 | Michael Kranish

Posted on 06/06/2005 11:05:28 PM PDT by FairOpinion

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To: All

Hate to sound like a tinfoil hat wearer but Kerry's records had to be cleansed for him to release them now. And honestly I don't see what good this does him now. The democrats won't renominate this or any other loser for President.


101 posted on 06/07/2005 7:21:02 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: FairOpinion

You don't think the Boston Globe would sanitize the file before they make it public? Gimme a break.

I don't know Form 180 from Shinola but I would be that there is a place on it that names who the file is to be given to. Eventually it will come out that no one else can get a copy of the file except the one designated on that form.


102 posted on 06/07/2005 7:23:07 AM PDT by Flint
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To: tobyhill
That's kind of my point - no matter what is provided, it will not be accepted as 'the complete record' unless it contains documents that crucify JF'inK. There will not be any acceptance of a neutral record, or even a slightly critical record, as 'the complete record.' Either it hoists him on his own petard, or it will be deemed incomplete.

That's why I think it is a pointless exercise. I also think it is not entirely consistent with the ease with which many dismiss the absence of documents that 'should' exist from the President's military file. It is simply a fact of life, esp. w/ the government, that documents that 'should' be in a file often aren't. Either that is acknowledged, without the need for some grand conspiracy to explain the absence, or it is not.

103 posted on 06/07/2005 7:37:43 AM PDT by lugsoul
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To: Nathan Zachary

Here is SF-180 and the instructions....read instruction #2 very very carefully, which pertains to section 3 of the Form. I would think that using FOIA would be east to get a copy of the SF-180 that he did sign. "signing form 180" does not and never did mean that the specified records were made publicly and widely available.....kerry and the press are playing semantics for all it is worth.......any records "released" by kerry signing SF-180 are limited to those specified and ONLY to persons/orgs designated by kerry. He is still the fraudster king of nuance.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/obtain_copies/standard_form_180.pdf


104 posted on 06/07/2005 7:39:00 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: StrangerInParadise

You're not running for POTUS. In fact it is SOP for just about any politician to release it. What's he hiding?


105 posted on 06/07/2005 7:41:37 AM PDT by Wristpin ( Varitek says to A-Rod: "We don't throw at .260 hitters.....")
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To: CharlieOK1

JFnK


Stephen Fry (Jeeves)

Separated at birth?

106 posted on 06/07/2005 7:42:39 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck
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To: SR 50

Your link doesn't work.


107 posted on 06/07/2005 7:43:30 AM PDT by Sir Gawain (Jeb Pilate and the Republican Congress: Stood by while someone died)
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To: CharlieOK1
That photo of Kerry reminds me of Laird Cregar's portrayal of Jack the Ripper in that old movie, "The Lodger".

Coming soon to a theater near you, "The Dodger" starring Lurch the Flipper.

Leni

108 posted on 06/07/2005 7:44:26 AM PDT by MinuteGal (I Feel Like I'm Diagonally Parked in a Parallel Universe)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

"The lack of any substantive new material"

The statement above is very subjective but the BG has done a good job at CYA. Is there no new material or is there new material the BG figures is not substantive?


109 posted on 06/07/2005 7:47:54 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: SR 50

I got it to work now.


110 posted on 06/07/2005 7:49:45 AM PDT by Sir Gawain (Jeb Pilate and the Republican Congress: Stood by while someone died)
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To: lugsoul
The government expunges records all the time. Since the revolution of the computers it makes it a bit more difficult due to mass storage and never ending servers.
111 posted on 06/07/2005 7:51:12 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: tobyhill
Yes. And they (just like others) lose them sometimes. Or things get misfiled. And so on.

Which is why the absence of a document that "should be there" is not evidence of anything at all.

112 posted on 06/07/2005 7:55:15 AM PDT by lugsoul
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To: FairOpinion

well, Kerry had two years to clean it up and with the help of his buddies Ted Kennedy and ex-President Carter to get it all FIXED.


113 posted on 06/07/2005 8:00:56 AM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: lugsoul
I do wonder why Kerry chose the BG to get the records and then the BG allowed Michael Kranish to write about it? Michael Kranish assisted in writing the John Kerry Autobiography last year and that alone continues to make questions about the integrity of any such offer.
114 posted on 06/07/2005 8:04:43 AM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
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To: tobyhill; All

This is ludicrous.

How about if Bush had only released his records to RUSH?


115 posted on 06/07/2005 8:13:56 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: FairOpinion
I believe the Globe concerning the point that the Navy gave them Kerry's records based on Kerry's authorizing SF 180. What I don't believe is Kranish's analysis of those records. Kranish helped author a sympathetic biography of Kerry before the 2004 election. I will wait until the SBVFT receive those records before drawing any conclusions.

I did find the follow paragraph revealing:

For example, Kerry received his first Purple Heart for action on Dec. 2, 1968. Kerry told historian Douglas Brinkley that ''I never saw where the piece of shrapnel had come from." Kerry's critics have questioned whether the wound came from enemy fire, and his former commanding officer said the wound resembled a ''scratch." The file includes a previously reported reference to Kerry being treated for the wound and that he was awarded the Purple Heart, but it does not address the details of the combat that night. No after-action report for the incident has been found.

Kerry's immediate superiors never recommended him for the PH that night. No after action report was made because there was no hostile fire. The $64 question is who signed the paperwork recommending Kerry for the first PH. Kerry or someone submitted the info after his superiors had departed country. More information is needed and should be in those files. You can bet the SBVFT will be going over these files with a fine tooth comb.

Adm. William Schachte: 'No enemy fire' One of John Kerry's superior officers disputes the circumstances Kerry claims led to the awarding of his first Purple Heart

116 posted on 06/07/2005 8:14:13 AM PDT by kabar
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To: tobyhill
I do wonder why Kerry chose the BG to get the records and then the BG allowed Michael Kranish to write about it? Michael Kranish assisted in writing the John Kerry Autobiography last year and that alone continues to make questions about the integrity of any such offer.

A number of newspapers, including the Globe and the WP, had FOIA requests in for this info. If Kerry signed a SF-180 authorizing release, anyone can get the info with a FOIA request. Once the SF-180 is signed, Kewrry has no control. What I would like to see is Kerry's signed SF-180 and whether there were any limits or restrictions on the material released. Obviously, Kerry knew beforehand what was in his file.

117 posted on 06/07/2005 8:18:09 AM PDT by kabar
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To: FairOpinion

My Uncle Havey just called - you remember him doncha? - the atheiest that died while on a grand drunk out - he said that he had heard they were expecting a freeze tonight.


118 posted on 06/07/2005 8:19:05 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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To: FairOpinion

That IS a good one!! BOLO for Sandy Berger.


119 posted on 06/07/2005 8:32:05 AM PDT by griswold3
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To: investigateworld

part of the reason he went to BC was because he couldnt get into Harvard with his BCD self.

Yes, the Carter amnesty was one of the best things he ever bought.


120 posted on 06/07/2005 8:34:50 AM PDT by Donald Meaker (i)
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To: MinuteGal

Bush is a handsome fella, isnt he? I am confident enough in my masculinity to be able to admit that.


121 posted on 06/07/2005 8:46:40 AM PDT by CharlieOK1 (See http://www.alisrael.com/tamuz/ for what should happen to Iran)
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To: FairOpinion
"This Toilet Sanitized for Your Protection."

...has suddenly become...

"This Record Sanitized of His Defection."
122 posted on 06/07/2005 8:50:00 AM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Children's classic songs updated for Islam "If you're happy and you know it, Go Kaboom!")
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To: FairOpinion

Sounds like the Globe is trying to give Kerry cover.


123 posted on 06/07/2005 8:52:25 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Seaplaner
The author of the article, Michael Krannish, is a HUGE Kerry supporter. This was written to say "Nothing new here. Move along."

Someone at the Globe has the reigns pulled very tight and they will spin this forever. Sooner or later though, someone will expose it all for the right amount of $$ (probably coming from the Hillary 2008 crowd).

124 posted on 06/07/2005 9:00:41 AM PDT by Chieftain (Thanks to the Swift Boat Veterans, Vietnam Veterans, and POW's for Truth for standing tall.)
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To: tobyhill
Any finding of an original Dishonorable Discharge could be hard to find if a military judge or high ranking officer ordered the discharge changed and all records leading to the original discharge be permanently removed from the individual's file. The missing files may have even come as a surprise to Kerry himself or it may have been part of the agreement that Kerry will leave the military, without a fight, if he received an honorable and all negative records removed from his file?

If a 21st century "Deep Throat" ever "leaked" John Kurry's LHD, would the new "Deep Throat" be viewed by the MSM as a hero or a villain? Three guesses.

125 posted on 06/07/2005 9:14:30 AM PDT by CDB
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To: Chieftain
Someone at the Globe has the reigns pulled very tight and they will spin this forever. Sooner or later though, someone will expose it all for the right amount of $$ (probably coming from the Hillary 2008 crowd).

They can try to spin it, but the SBVFT can put in a FOIA request for the material and do their own analysis. The big question for me is whether Kerry's SF-180 contains any limitations on the kinds of material released. The SBVFT should be able to get a copy of the signed SF-180.

126 posted on 06/07/2005 9:16:25 AM PDT by kabar
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To: FairOpinion
skerry is a liar....over and over and over...he'll never let the public see the real deal on his dishonorable discharge from the navy...that'd end his chances of ever becoming president....

skerry I've got news for you...YOU'LL NEVER BE ELECTED AS PRESIDENT OF USA!!!

127 posted on 06/07/2005 9:23:22 AM PDT by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: FairOpinion

This is highly suspect and not fooling anyone.

Did you all see that the basset hound was a D student to boot?

And they criticized W for being a C student, hypocrits.


128 posted on 06/07/2005 9:26:46 AM PDT by conservativebabe
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To: FairOpinion
Apparently he did sign the 180 -- but seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if some mole hadn't gotten in there and removed some incriminating ones, such as his original suspected dishonorable or at least general discharge.

Oh you know it took him this long to release the records, because they had to be sanitized first. At this late date, I wouldn't believe anything he produced.

129 posted on 06/07/2005 9:27:30 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Free Mexico!)
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To: FairOpinion

You know, if there should be nothing real emabarassing, he may end up looking like a bigger fool.


130 posted on 06/07/2005 9:29:28 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: StrangerInParadise
I served for many years...1980-2004, in both active duty and reserve components of the Army. I would not release my record. It's nobody's business.

A lot of us are vets; but, most of us are not US Presidential candidates. Especially, a candidate who made his military service the cornerstone of his campaign.

131 posted on 06/07/2005 9:30:24 AM PDT by CDB
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To: kabar
They can try to spin it, but the SBVFT can put in a FOIA request for the material and do their own analysis.

This is simply NOT TRUE, and it has been pointed out numerous times in this forum as well as in this thread. An FOIA request cannot breach the privacy restrictions which protect military records without prior authorization (SF 180) that specify the parameters of what is to be released and TO WHOM.

132 posted on 06/07/2005 9:33:07 AM PDT by JakeINJoisey
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To: FairOpinion

Is he smiling or just breathing?

133 posted on 06/07/2005 10:03:01 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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To: JakeINJoisey
This is simply NOT TRUE, and it has been pointed out numerous times in this forum as well as in this thread. An FOIA request cannot breach the privacy restrictions which protect military records without prior authorization (SF 180) that specify the parameters of what is to be released and TO WHOM.

Kerry has supposedly submitted an SF-180, which gives authorization to release his military records. Do you know what parameters Kerry placed on his SF-180? I don't, which is why I have stated that in post 126 that we need to see his SF-180 to see the limitations, if any.

As far as being able to designate who can see these records as part of the authorization (SF 180), I would like to see the primary source for this assertion. I hve been involved in FOIA releases, and have never heard of such a restriction. In essence, you are limiting the public's right to know. Also, if you were to limit who can receive such material, what conditions are placed upon them for the release of the material to others not named?

The Freedom of Information Act 5 U.S.C. § 552, As Amended By Public Law No. 104-231, 110 Stat. 3048

134 posted on 06/07/2005 10:20:35 AM PDT by kabar
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To: lugsoul
That's why I think it is a pointless exercise.[..] Either that is acknowledged, without the need for some grand conspiracy to explain the absence, or it is not.

Forget it, dude. Yer just whizzing into the wind on this one.

SW

135 posted on 06/07/2005 10:21:45 AM PDT by Snidely Whiplash
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To: FairOpinion

If he was able to get Lehman's signature forged on his record and Lehman couldn't do anything about it, then who's to doubt he could get anything sanitized? I hate sitting US senators.


136 posted on 06/07/2005 10:23:15 AM PDT by johnb838 ((thanks to those of you that post articles for me, the lowly commentator))
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To: JakeINJoisey
SF-180
137 posted on 06/07/2005 10:32:22 AM PDT by kabar
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To: llama hunter

What about sKerry's FBI file during the 70's?


138 posted on 06/07/2005 10:32:26 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - L O V E - my attitude problem!)
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To: kabar
2. Restrictions on release of information. Release of information is subject to restrictions imposed by the military services consistent with Department of Defense regulations and the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and the Privacy Act of 1974. The service member (either past or present) or the member’s legal guardian has access to almost any information contained in that member’s own record. Others requesting information from military personnel/health records must have the release authorization in Section III of the SF 180 signed by the member or legal guardian, but if the appropriate signature cannot be obtained, only limited types of information can be provided. If the former member is deceased, surviving next of kin may, under certain circumstances, be entitled to greater access to a deceased veteran’s records than a member of the public. The next of kin may be any of the following: unremarried surviving spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, sister, or brother. Employers and others needing proof of military service are expected to accept the information shown on documents issued by the military service departments at the time a service member is separated.

If Kerry only releases this information to the Boston Globe, he would be crucified. Again, I would like to see his signed 180 and what was put in Section III.

139 posted on 06/07/2005 10:39:52 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Auntie Dem

Get Dan Rather on the job----he can spot phoney documents a mile away.


140 posted on 06/07/2005 10:41:01 AM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: conservativebabe

In the words of one Tommy Callahan (Chris Farley) in the movie Tommy Boy after learning he got a D in a class....

"I PASSED! I PASSED!"

I am not going to bash getting an education, it is important. Getting the diploma is the ultimate goal.
But I must say what a high school graduate with no college told me one time: "How come there are so many problems out there in areas where the people in charge are college educated?"

It is nice they have a college education. Yet, Bush has something that Kerry never had: he learned how to become a great man.


141 posted on 06/07/2005 10:41:23 AM PDT by Columbus Dawg (Columbus: Where our mayor is not offended by rape, and our football players cause trouble.)
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To: lugsoul
It is NOT rocket science:

Date of entrance into Navy:
Enlistment commitment time:
Discharge dateS:
His actions between '71 and '75:
Well known and documented trips to Paris to meet with the enemy:

There is no tinfoil involved with these questions.

142 posted on 06/07/2005 10:42:42 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - L O V E - my attitude problem!)
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To: bill1952
How about if Bush had only released his records to RUSH?

Speaking of RUSH...he is saying that the only reason he did not release his records was because he did not want his low grades to be used against him during the election.

I am VERY disappointed in RUSH right now.

143 posted on 06/07/2005 10:52:49 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - L O V E - my attitude problem!)
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To: CharlieOK1
vs.

Separated at Birth?

144 posted on 06/07/2005 11:26:03 AM PDT by Itzlzha ("The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote")
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To: FairOpinion

Would you trust the Globe to release ALL of his records, or just the ones that Kerry wants?


145 posted on 06/07/2005 11:52:16 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: pepperhead

Do you trust the Globe to release ALL of the records? They have repeatedly shown that they are eager to carry the 'Rats' water.


146 posted on 06/07/2005 11:56:30 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: FairOpinion; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Something doesn't sound right. I don't think you can sign a 180 and limit who gets access to your records. Tonk, am I right on this?


147 posted on 06/07/2005 11:59:59 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
The more I think about it, the more this smacks of a collaborative effort between Camp Kerry and the Globe. It seemed odd to me at the time that a Globe reporter would ask about SF-180 just out of the blue. Then, the article reporting it said something about "a series of emails", therefore insinuating reluctance on the Kerry camp, until they finally succumbed to the repeated journalistic efforts of the Globe. There is NO WAY that this would have happened like this. What, the Globe suddenly decided it was time to see the Kerry record, and Kerry had 'coincidently' received SF-180 a week or so prior?

Bullcrap. This is a whitewash/cover-up. The problem for Kerry is that not only will the Swifties see through this, but the Hillary-ites will also most likely see a cover-up, and the MSM will actually report it if Queen Hillary's aides bring it to their attention.
148 posted on 06/07/2005 12:02:06 PM PDT by Carling (FReemail me if you want articles that interest, well...me!)
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To: Justanobody
Speaking of RUSH...he is saying that the only reason he did not release his records was because he did not want his low grades to be used against him during the election. I am VERY disappointed in RUSH right now.

Ditto for me (if you'll pardon the expression).

149 posted on 06/07/2005 12:30:32 PM PDT by JakeINJoisey
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To: conshack
'one of the finest young officers with whom I have served;" is ''the acknowledged leader of his peer group;" and is ''highly recommended for promotion."

You're right on ... standard boiler-plate on all OER's (Officer Efficiency Report)

150 posted on 06/07/2005 12:35:40 PM PDT by CIBvet (Thanks to all who sat in their lawnchairs to prove we can protect the AZ border .... REAL Patriots.)
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