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Microsoft bans 'democracy' for China web users
moneycentral ^

Posted on 06/10/2005 3:35:49 PM PDT by phoenix_004

Microsoft's new Chinese internet portal has banned the words "democracy" and "freedom" from parts of its website in an apparent effort to avoid offending Beijing's political censors.

Users of the joint-venture portal, formally launched last month, have been blocked from using a range of potentially sensitive words to label personal websites they create using its free online blog service, MSN Spaces.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.moneycentral.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; democracy
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Earlier its was argued by analysts that greater investments in china by multinationals and greater economic development of china will eventually lead to democracy in china.....Now its becoming increasingly clear that instead of that happening , these corporations have become tools in the hands of the chinese to extend their authoritarian reach!!!!
1 posted on 06/10/2005 3:35:49 PM PDT by phoenix_004
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To: phoenix_004

Disgusting

China: Jump!

US Corporations: How High?

Google is guilty of this too


2 posted on 06/10/2005 3:38:30 PM PDT by Crazieman (If Con is the opposite of Pro, what is the opposite of Progress?)
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To: phoenix_004
The Chinese have always been authoritarian, and at time totalitarian.

I wonder if they ban the expression "ChiComScum"?

3 posted on 06/10/2005 3:39:07 PM PDT by muawiyah (q)
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To: muawiyah

Or the color "red?"


4 posted on 06/10/2005 3:39:42 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: phoenix_004
Yes, Bill and his friends in both parties are the social and intellectual "elite."

China's leaders order Communist Party to take stronger role in business (China)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1328492/posts
Excerpt:
"China had 150,000 state enterprises by the end of 2003. Most are controlled by local or provincial governments, with only the largest and most strategically important falling under central government control. - AP


Microsoft's Bill Gates to meet with Jacques Chirac, sign Dassault deal Wednesday
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1281425/posts?page=1
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041116/bs_afp/france_us_it_software_041116203803

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $8.8 million to the Planned Parenthood Federation.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/women/12/11/health.women.gates.reut/

"Microsoft offers source code to China"
http://itmatters.com.ph/news/news_03032003a.html
(removed from major news sites)

Gates: Buy stamps to send e-mail
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/03/05/spam.charge.ap/

Bill Gates against repealing the inheritance tax
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_inheritance.html

"Soros, one of the wealthiest men in the world, promised $15.5 million to defeating President Bush. Also on this list are Bill Gates,..."
http://www.americasvoices.org/archives2003/CoxJ/CoxJ_112403.htm

The Left-Wing Billionaire Collectivist Pigs
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/25/191020.shtml

Billionaire Collectivist Pigs on a Roll
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/11/171315.shtml

"Gun-Control Group Changes Name, Keeps Agenda"
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5C%5CNation%5C%5Carchive%5C%5C200106%5C%5CNAT20010615a.html
(and Bill is a contributor)

"Is Bill Gates a closet liberal?"
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/01/cov_29feature.html
(Bill Gates for gun control, pro-abortion, etc.)

http://vikingphoenix.com/news/madminute/1997/mm970040.htm
(Gates on gun control)

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec97/guns_11-4.html
(more money for gun control from Gates and his father)

"Bill Gates Is No Free Market Hero"
http://brian.carnell.com/articles/2000/12/000046.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/datelinedc/s_176864.html

Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going
http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm

"the changing politics of Bill Gates" (national review, john j. miller)
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1282/2_51/53662235/p1/article.jhtml

2002 Feb 2, In NYC protesters of the World Economic Forum turned out in large numbers. Inside foreign economic leaders criticized the US for protectionist policies, and Bill Gates and U2 rock star Bono pushed for increases in foreign aid by rich countries to poor countries."
http://timelines.ws/days/02_02.HTML

"Software, soft money, and Libertarians"
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0039/news-anderson.shtml
[Bill gives money to both sides--whoever supports Microsoft and extreme social left policies. ...includes Barney Frank.]

Client testimonials, Bill Gates in China, Bill Clinton in China
http://www.beijinghighlights.com/testimonials/testimonials.htm

"State-owned Software Firm Ties up with Microsoft China"
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200107/07/eng20010707_74398.html
5 posted on 06/10/2005 3:41:58 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: Crazieman
This is the same sort of trick IBM got into in Germany before WWII, and actually held onto during the two years the US was not involved in that war.

There's a leftwing nutcase out there with a book that's otherwise fairly definitive regarding this issue and he says, and proves, that IBM managed to account for all the Jews shipped to the death camps. The "accounting" minimized the efforts required by the Nazi state to round them up.

I would imagine Google's management team went through the exact same arguments IBM's did ~ "Do we want to do this"? "Yes, there's a lot of money to be made".

End of argument.

6 posted on 06/10/2005 3:42:14 PM PDT by muawiyah (q)
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To: phoenix_004

They will quickly develop a code for any banned words. Freedom cannot be contained, its either all or nothing. They let the Genie out of the bottle and will have a difficult time getting it back in. Protests in Hong Kong are proving that. God Bless them all!


7 posted on 06/10/2005 3:43:49 PM PDT by Camel Joe (Proud Uncle of a Fine Young Marine)
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To: ShadowAce

Worth a ping. I can't wait to hear Bush2000 and Golden Eagle spin this.


8 posted on 06/10/2005 3:50:25 PM PDT by shadowman99
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To: Crazieman

Agreed.

Disgusting.

I'm fed up with MSFT.


9 posted on 06/10/2005 3:51:12 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: Crazieman

Google is one of the worst. I was searching for photos of soldiers in order to do some cartooning and guess where "us soldiers uniforms" led me? Right to dozens of websites slamming soldiers, prisoner "abuse", all the crap you can imagine.

And thank you Microsoft for the real stand-up pro-liberty, pro-democracy respresentation of a nation that has given you so much, you spineless POS. Now, want to know how I really feel? Just don't come within arm's reach.


10 posted on 06/10/2005 3:53:56 PM PDT by brushcop (Remember SFC David Salie, a gentle giant of a man KIA (2-14-05) Iraq fighting for their liberty.)
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To: muawiyah
There is a long history of 'elites' sucking up to dictators, witness Joesph P. Kennedy oft repeated statement, "Nazi's are just hard nosed business folks who we can deal with".
Henry Ford, when not publishing "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", was hiring Armand Hammer to sell his products to the newly birthed Soviet Union, and later built them a truck manufacturing plant. He also started "Ford Werks" which produced 100,000 trucks for the Werhmacht.... Even Donald Douglas, who produced the great DC3/C-47, A-20, A-26, had sold a DC 4 to Japan so they could reverse engineer and develop a long range bomber. This was after Japan had draw blood via attacking the USN's Yangtze River Patrol. ***** The list is endless*******
11 posted on 06/10/2005 3:56:37 PM PDT by investigateworld ( God bless Poland for giving the world JP II & a Protestant bump for his Sainthood!)
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To: phoenix_004
I'm not a big fan of democracy, either, but freedom?!
12 posted on 06/10/2005 4:00:15 PM PDT by Young Scholar
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To: brushcop

Proud to say I have used MS operating sys. since day one of my home computing (1995). I'm even prouder that I can count one one hand how much $ I have given Bill Gates for the privilege. I'm beginning to wonder when Geek boy takes his visit to Cuba like his buddies.


13 posted on 06/10/2005 4:07:19 PM PDT by DAC22
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To: Crazieman

Personally, I have no problem with Microsoft doing this. If the Chinese are deluding themselves into thinking that banning a few words from the MS internet portal will keep western ideas out of their country, then they are truly dense. Microsoft is just giving the Chicoms enough rope to hang themselves.


14 posted on 06/10/2005 4:08:41 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: shadowman99; Golden Eagle; Bush2000
Me neither. I'm guessing it'll be the "but IBM sold stuff to the Soviets, and as long MS is making money, and...and that money that is going to MS can't buy weapons...and, and...it's all Linux's fault!!!" diatribe again.

Worth a ping. I can't wait to hear Bush2000 and Golden Eagle spin this.

15 posted on 06/11/2005 4:02:35 AM PDT by Salo
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To: Salo
Nothing for me to spin, although it looks like you're stuck somewhere between a top and a gyroscope yourself. America's government is allowing American businesses to operate in China, which I don't agree with because things like this happen. Other search engines like Google will obviously suffer similar bans.

Of course, you'd never look at the issue objectively, and place guilt evenly or on the root cause of the issues, you'd much rather try to twist it into something that Microsoft and Microsoft alone is guilty of. If anyone has an agenda, it's quite obviously you and your Lunix hounds.

China orders all websites, blogs to register with government or face shutdown

16 posted on 06/11/2005 6:13:28 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: BenLurkin
Agreed. Disgusting. I'm fed up with MSFT.

I guess you missed the part of his post about Google being guilty as well.

17 posted on 06/11/2005 6:16:06 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: phoenix_004
Microsoft's new Chinese internet portal has banned the words "democracy" and "freedom" from parts of its website in an apparent effort to avoid offending Beijing's political censors.

Microsoft knee padding for communist dictators? say it aint so..

18 posted on 06/11/2005 9:47:14 AM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Brilliant
If the Chinese are deluding themselves into thinking that banning a few words from the MS internet portal will keep western ideas out of their country, then they are truly dense.
Friends in China have told me that there are numerous ways around all this stuff using mirror sites (maybe that's not the right name, i'm not much of a tec guy) and everyone on the net there knows about it. apparently there are even many access pages for google that help users get around the censors.
19 posted on 06/11/2005 9:51:40 AM PDT by freedom moose (has de cultivar el que sembres)
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To: Swordmaker

Tech Ping?


20 posted on 06/11/2005 1:27:50 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (posted on my brand new mac mini...)
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To: Golden Eagle

I'm not too keen on Google either -- but like a wino in an alley I keep stumbling back to it for another draught.


21 posted on 06/11/2005 3:24:17 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: Golden Eagle
China orders all websites, blogs to register with government or face shutdown

Our own "National Telecommunications and Information Administration has decided that Americans using the .us domain have no right to privacy, and that if you have a .us domain that you have registered as private, you will have to reveal your contact information, and if you are planning on a .us domain, you will not be able to register as private. There was no hearing, no due process, no survey of .us owners, come January of 2006, you better reveal your information, or you domain goes bye-bye. More information at AmericansDeservePrivacy.com.

I don't expect this to stop with the .us domain. I expect other agencies and/or Congress to push for such measures across all domains/websites hosted in the US. Many of them do not like us being able to setup private websites (I'm sure they'll use the threat of terrorism as an excuse).
22 posted on 06/11/2005 11:34:03 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

Unfortunately you are probably correct. At some point long in the future you'll probably have to log onto the network with something similar to your SSN, so you can be tracked and they verify you pay for content you access. We're talking a long ways off, but due to terrorism, hackism, and theivery, the government will probably at some point require it. By then, many will actually want it, else it wouldn't go through.


23 posted on 06/12/2005 6:43:12 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: freedom moose

Even if it were air-tight, it would not work. You can say a whole lot of subversive things without saying the words "democracy" and "freedom." They are opening Pandora's Box, but they've somehow convinced themselves that these measures will keep it under control.

And suppose that they are right? They don't seem to understand that the primary thing that makes the internet a useful tool is the fact that you can share ideas freely. If they are going to do this, then why have the internet at all?

The other thing is that they could spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars censoring the web. It's a complete waste of economic resources. To succeed at censoring the web, they'd end up putting their economy at a disadvantage.


24 posted on 06/12/2005 9:29:26 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Golden Eagle
Unfortunately you are probably correct. At some point long in the future you'll probably have to log onto the network with something similar to your SSN, so you can be tracked and they verify you pay for content you access. We're talking a long ways off, but due to terrorism, hackism, and theivery, the government will probably at some point require it. By then, many will actually want it, else it wouldn't go through.

Howard Dean (and Joseph Lieberman to an extent), during his campaign, at one point said people should ID themselves before logging onto the internet, and shouldn't be allowed to use the internet without some kind of blatant electronic trail. He quickly backed off once the criticism started rolling in, but the fact that a presidential candidate of a major party (who now runs that party) would propose such an anti-American sentiment speaks volumes.

Ostensibly, it's "for the children" or "against terrorism", but in the end, it's really just against law-abiding citizens.
25 posted on 06/12/2005 1:14:07 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

Dean is obviously (for more reasons than this example) a whacko, but there are many Republicans that are currently instituting tighter controls on the internet right now, starting with the administration. It could be decades before a thorough tracking system is in place, but you know they will, eventually, whether we are willing participants, or even aware of it, or not. Enjoy your freedoms while you can, but the majority of per byte traffic on the internet right now is either porn or pirated software/music/movies, and politicians of all colors will eventually feel the need to step in and "protect us from ourselves", if not the actual internet vandals and theives.


26 posted on 06/12/2005 2:25:34 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: shadowman99; Salo
Well whataya know. Looks like Google and Yahoo were already doing it first. I'm sure you'll admit your mistake to hastily criticize Microsoft, and inferences that they and they alone were doing the despicable. /SARCASM

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050613/tc_afp/chinainternetcompany
27 posted on 06/13/2005 5:20:12 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
I never said - or inferred - MS was alone, but according to you, Google is a bunch of left wing communists because they use linux, and MS is a bunch of patriotic Americans who stand for all that is good and decent because they use closed-source. They both suck and are complicit in what is in every moral sense a crime.

If you want to know the biggest bunch of Rat Bastards helping the chicoms with the Great Firewall of China, I think Cisco wins the award.

You have yet to condemn MS for this: I condemn MS, Cisco, Intel and anyone else helping the chicoms oppress their citizens.

Here's a link for you. I hope you like it.

28 posted on 06/13/2005 6:51:49 AM PDT by Salo
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To: phoenix_004
Translation: All Hail the Almighty Dollar/Yen/Yuan/etc.....

"For the love of money is the root of all (kinds of) evil."

29 posted on 06/13/2005 6:55:23 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (Excrementum Occurum)
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To: Salo
You have yet to condemn MS for this

Cold day, hell... enough said..

30 posted on 06/13/2005 9:04:47 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (posted on my brand new mac mini...)
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To: Salo

LOL, it sure is funny to watch you flop and flounder about when your hypocrisy is exposed. I said in my first post (and have countless other times) I don't believe in tech exports to China because all they do is use them to further their goals of oppression. I then in my last post above referred to the practice as "despicable". You're the one left trying to explain why you originally tried to bash Microsoft alone for it, and infer that I somehow supported it, both of which leave you in your current predicament, for which I am certainly not to blame. Quite obviously, you have no one but yourself to thank for that.


31 posted on 06/13/2005 9:28:39 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: N3WBI3

You're just as hypocritical as he is. If you want to take a step towards proving you're not, then go create a thread with today's news that the Mozilla site in Korea was hacked and defaced.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050613/tc_afp/chinainternetcompany

You wasted no time creating a thread when a similar problem happened to MSN a couple of weeks ago, your joy overflowing. Remember?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1415640/posts


32 posted on 06/13/2005 9:36:21 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: N3WBI3

Wrong link. Here it is:

http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=news&ID=7380

And another:

http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3512081


33 posted on 06/13/2005 9:38:16 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Salo
See Salo, I just told you not to hold you're breath and the sorry guy comes back with more attacks on anything OSS rather than condemn MS's actions..
34 posted on 06/13/2005 9:41:41 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (posted on my brand new mac mini...)
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To: N3WBI3

I already condemmed them, and pointed they were not alone, and we've since come to find out that Google and Yahoo had already made those changes for the Chicoms ahead of Microsoft.

Now the question is, are you going to show any consistency yourself, and create a thread about Mozilla's website getting hacked like you so gleefully did when it happened to Microsoft? Apparently not.


35 posted on 06/13/2005 9:58:13 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Swordmaker
This is great, though you might want a peek..

nowhere on the thread does he actually condemn MS and misses this thread http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421954/posts started at 06/13/2005 11:41:03 AM CDT, before he said "Now the question is, are you going to show any consistency yourself, and create a thread about Mozilla's website getting hacked like you so gleefully did when it happened to Microsoft?" at 06/13/2005 11:58:13 AM CDT...

Talk about a fanatic...
36 posted on 06/13/2005 10:03:33 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (posted on my brand new mac mini...)
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To: N3WBI3

Good, hopefully I won't have to goad you into it next time.

My position is very consistent, I don't believe in basically any tech exports to China, especially not giving them free copies of software to legally use much less rename "Red Flag".

I also despise when companies like IBM and Microsoft partner with or praise the Chicoms. Yes, I think IBM is more guilty of this, rightfully so, but I've also created entire new threads to bash Gates before, because I thought he deserved it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345585/posts

Once again, you're wrong. Typical.


37 posted on 06/13/2005 10:23:05 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
What predicament? I acknowledge the transfers take place. I don't like it, but it does not matter. You get fired up about Red Hat being renamed Red Flag and distributed by the Chicoms, and you soil yourself over anything IBM does, but I have yet to see you explicitly condemn Microsoft or Sun for doing what IBM, Cisco, Google and Yahoo also do. In your world, MS and Sun are stand-up, patriotic American companies who would never sell our enemies the rope to hang us with. In reality, they are no better than anyone else.

Man up, Nancy: you and yours are as bad as anyone else and theirs. Thankfully, you are through pretending you have the moral high ground on this issue.
38 posted on 06/13/2005 10:39:28 AM PDT by Salo
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To: Salo

Horse manure. You support the GPL license, which does allow the chicoms to take a free and legal copy of Red Hat Linux and rename and resell it as Red Flag instead. Pointing fingers at Microsoft doesn't do you any good either, since they do nothing of the sort. They are actually victims of software piracy in China, something you seem obvlivious to since in your mind it should all be free anyway. If not you, the rest of your anti-Microsoft GPL-loving pack.


39 posted on 06/13/2005 3:23:31 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle
I support the GPL, the BSD licenses and MS's right to keep their source to themselves and sell the binaries. If it's your property, you can do what you want with it within the law. Not the issue.

If Red Hat is ok with China using their stuff and calling it Red Flag, I won't argue with them. Again, not the issue.

I feel anyone using MS's software should pay for it. Again, not the issue.

The issue here is not software piracy or the GPL.

The issue is MS (among all of the others doing it) is helping the chicoms to oppress their people: it's wrong.
40 posted on 06/13/2005 3:51:50 PM PDT by Salo
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To: Salo

That's ridiculous! You can't claim you're somehow opposed to the chicoms using US technology however they want, then in the same breath say you quote "support the GPL" which gives them software for free. Completely contradictory, and hypocritical.


41 posted on 06/13/2005 8:13:11 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

I'm not in favor of trade with dictatorships of any kind. For some reason, the Linux zealots can't seem to get this through their skulls. Meanwhile, they continue to bash MS on one hand -- and parrot Stallman's party line about promoting "freedom" by giving software for free to China's military-industrial complex so that it can be used to oppress their own citizens. Talk about hypocrisy.


42 posted on 06/13/2005 9:44:44 PM PDT by Bush2000 (Linux -- You Get What You Pay For ... (tm)
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To: Golden Eagle
Read this SLOWLY so you can comprehend it:

If it's your property, you can do what you want with it within the law.

If you don't like the technology transfer, get the law changed. Of course, you'd be up against Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Cisco, Intel and others. Until the law is changed, what they are doing is ok - legally. I guess you can protest by not buying any of their products: let me know when you begin to boycott all of these companies.

No one has said what any of these companies are doing is illegal: their crimes are moral crimes.

Say it with me, Iggle: "Microsoft (among others) is wrong to assist China in suppressing free speech."

43 posted on 06/14/2005 5:08:21 AM PDT by Salo
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To: phoenix_004
Microsoft's new Chinese internet portal has banned the words "democracy" and "freedom" from parts of its website in an apparent effort to avoid offending Beijing's political censors.

How craven...

44 posted on 06/14/2005 5:22:38 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport them all; let Fox sort them out!)
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To: Salo

I comprehend just fine. You're the one twisted into a knot.

US technology shouldn't be going to totalitarian regimes, period, as far as I'm concerned. Giving it to them for free, as you endorse, is the highest possible infraction.


45 posted on 06/14/2005 5:34:10 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Salo
"Microsoft (among others) is wrong to assist China in suppressing free speech."

No snow in the weather forecast for hell.. Its just so dang easy to attack GPL w/out realizing with or without it MS would be giving (according to some) superior windows technology to China.. I would not expect the trolls to change their message in the face of their own obvious hypocrisy..

46 posted on 06/14/2005 9:25:46 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (posted on my brand new mac mini...)
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To: Golden Eagle
First, let's address your Wookie:

But MS selling it to them is ok?

Giving it to them for free, as you endorse, is the highest possible infraction. +++++++++++

Say it Iggle: "MS (among others)is wrong to participate in helping China to suppress the free speech of their citizens, which is a God-given right." It puts them on the same moral plateau as linux - if you think John Walker was more moral than Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.

47 posted on 06/14/2005 10:44:27 AM PDT by Salo
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To: Salo
But MS selling it to them is ok?

Not if I had my way. Do you have ears, or not? Conversely, your admitted position is, Microsoft or anyone can do anything with their property they want, including give it away to the chicoms for free, so the chicoms can then do anything they want with it. All they have to do is license it under the GPL license, and you're pleased as punch. Don't try to deny it now, either, we already knew and you once again admitted it on here, you fully support the GPL and these free and legal technology transfers. Not just to China, either, but to ANY totalitarian regime there is, without restriction, or concern of what they use it for. That's what the GPL is all about, as you are fully aware.

48 posted on 06/14/2005 10:57:39 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Salo
To summarize your admitted position, based on quotes above:

I support the GPL...If it's your property, you can do what you want with it...If Red Hat is ok with China using their stuff and calling it Red Flag, I won't argue with them...If it's your property, you can do what you want with it...what they are doing is ok...

Just want any lurkers to see your real position on things, your attempts at blaming Microsoft being obviously nothing more than a failed attempt at distracting from your acutal position on technology transfers to communists and dictators.

49 posted on 06/14/2005 11:14:11 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: phoenix_004

The great firewall of China


50 posted on 06/14/2005 11:15:14 AM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans.)
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