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Oil industry hopes to avoid paying for MTBE problem
San Diego Union -Tribune ^ | 6/15/05 | Michael Gardner - CNS

Posted on 06/15/2005 9:36:34 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

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To: JeffersonRepublic.com
...."Didn't the government make them use MTBE?"......

That's my understanding also. At the very least, the gubmint approved it.

21 posted on 06/15/2005 11:06:14 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: chuckles
Maybe the Oil bidness should take the eco wacko's to court and bring some of this out about who invented what. Suing the Sierra club for a few billion might shut them up awhile.
22 posted on 06/15/2005 11:10:35 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: ClaireSolt
Claire, the underground gas tank situation was another government mandated scam that cost billions for no good result.

What they didn't tell you: originally gasoline, while obnoxious for a short period, was not a pollutant, as when released into the ground it was quickly reduced by natural processes to benign compounds.

Steel underground tanks would deteriorate by rusting and leak some gasoline into the ground, and those tanks would be detected and replaced. But this wasn't good enough for government money burners, everybody had to replace all the tanks immediately. No more worries, as the new tanks would be rustproof Fiberglas (plastic) construction, impervious to gasoline. The government idiots didn't bother to find out if the new tanks resisted ALCOHOL (MTBE and ethanol) which, of course, they didn't. And of course the pollutants in gasoline that DON'T break down in the environment are the late model additives and MTBE. So the new tanks began leaking real pollutants very quickly.

Bottom line the government mandated that we spend billions to go from no problem to huge problem. Enviroterrorists have been in government for a long time.

23 posted on 06/15/2005 11:15:13 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
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To: Ron in Acreage
Clinton wasn't president in 1990. This requirement actually started under Bush I. The 1990 clean-air act required oxygenated gasoline use by 1995. Clinton could have killed it with an EO....oh well.
I just wonder why MTBE was the choice for some.
24 posted on 06/15/2005 11:15:33 PM PDT by stylin19a (Suicide bomber ? "I came to the wrong jihad")
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To: Rabble

NAFTA. A ban of MTBE would be considered a barrier to trade and therefore be actionable by a WTO tribunal. Also, because our government is bent on merging Mexico, Canada and the USA into a single economic and political bloc, they don't want to mess with the MTBE producers in Canada. It might affect their ability to complete the merger.

FYI for now they are calling it the North American Community-- a mini-EU that will eventually expand to encompass the whole Western Hemisphere via CAFTA then the FTAA. There was a recent article posted about security and the North American Community--look it up if you're interested. Its an eye opener and very bad news for the future of the United States as a sovereign country.


25 posted on 06/15/2005 11:21:56 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: okie01
we are, literally, screwed three ways from Sunday.

Yep, I am not sure if we can ever fully recover from this massive waste of resources.

26 posted on 06/15/2005 11:22:02 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
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To: ClaireSolt
"How could it get into groundwater unless the underground gas tanks were leaking?

Not certain of this but - I believe that MTBE when burned with gasoline becomes airborne and when rain washes it to the ground it seeps in, resulting in groundwater pollution.

27 posted on 06/15/2005 11:25:47 PM PDT by Rabble (Just When is John F sKerry going to release all his military records ?)
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To: Rabble; ClaireSolt

My understanding was that it was dispersed as a product of combustion and rained down as mentioned, but leaking underground storage tanks (called LUST in the hazmat/envirolaw industry) are possibly to blame as well.


28 posted on 06/15/2005 11:36:46 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Ron in Acreage
Amen !!!!
The D.N.C . the Clintons, the liberals , the enviro wackos should be made to pay for the cost to clean this mess up.
See how the Liberals operate ? they pass these laws, then, when it becomes a mess, they don't own up to their responsibility and accountability, and try to pass the buck onto the oil companies and blame the oil companies for endangering the environment with the additives.
29 posted on 06/15/2005 11:44:34 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: hedgetrimmer
"NAFTA. A ban of MTBE would be considered a barrier to trade and therefore be actionable by a WTO tribunal."

Our elected officials swore an oath to abide by our constitution, which states that they're responsible to protect the populace from all threats, both foreign & domestic. This domestic threat to the health of the people is a life and death situation and this thumps all other agreements, especially foreign.

I'm certain that there must be language in the NAFTA plan which would nullify any agreement which would be destructive to the health & welfare of our nation. If not there certainly should be! I'm convinced that somewhere in that agreement there's an out that can be used to nullify an agreement, especially if there's a threat to the safety of our people.

30 posted on 06/15/2005 11:45:39 PM PDT by Rabble (Just When is John F sKerry going to release all his military records ?)
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To: hedgetrimmer

thumps = trumps


31 posted on 06/15/2005 11:57:51 PM PDT by Rabble (Just When is John F sKerry going to release all his military records ?)
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To: NormsRevenge
Just what we need--make private industry pay for something it would not have used had the government not required it.

Individual motorists at gas pumps spill an amazing amount of fuel just a few drops at a time, but MTBE does not break down. All those drips and splashes add up.

No one needs to have a leaky underground tank, and those went through inspections during the Clinton years, too, shutting down a lot of older gas stations where infrastructure upgrades were too expensive.

So let's beat up the BIG oil companies to pay for the actions of a government and the people it represents. /SARC

We will have $5.00 gasoline yet, imho.

32 posted on 06/16/2005 12:00:57 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: Rabble
thumps = trumps

In this context, I think I prefer "thumps".

It reminds me of Teddy's "big stick".

33 posted on 06/16/2005 12:57:21 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more work horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: NormsRevenge

bill wattenberg of radio kgo san francisco used to scream himself silly over mtbe.

he said that the oil companies and the cal epa were in bed together, that employees moved back and forth, back and forth, for higher salaries.

he was on record for over a decade against mtbe, pointing out that it was a carcinogen.


34 posted on 06/16/2005 1:00:20 AM PDT by ken21
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To: ken21

I'm searching back in the mists of time, but I recall there was something about MTBE being a waste byproduct of the chemical industry and using it as a fuel oxygenator sort of killed two birds with one stone. Which reminds me of stories I heard about the east coast mafia who would (for a price) drive tankers of hazardous waste around the turnpikes with the spigot dripping until it's gone.


35 posted on 06/16/2005 1:30:52 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Rabble
No, it is from leaking tanks.

MTBE burns pretty much completely. The main complaint comes from that it makes well water smell like dead fish (beside the carcinogen aspect).
36 posted on 06/16/2005 5:44:07 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SpaceBar

MTBE isn't a waste product. It has to be refined in a special process. The feed stream is a different "cut" from the cracking column, and one that really doesn't have as much commercial demand as others.


37 posted on 06/16/2005 5:46:35 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: dts32041

True, make the Californian citiizens pay for it. They are the ones that started it.


38 posted on 06/16/2005 5:47:03 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: caver

It was the EPA. Then the elected officials and unelected bureaucrats should be tried, fined and possibly jailed. The people of California are not culpable but the federal and state governments are.


39 posted on 06/16/2005 8:10:56 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: Rabble
Our elected officials swore an oath to abide by our constitution, which states that they're responsible to protect the populace from all threats, both foreign & domestic.

A bureaucrat swinging from a gallows would send the right message in many many ways.

In China, they would use one bullet, and invoice the next of kin for the bullet.

40 posted on 06/16/2005 10:01:11 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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