Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Profound questions from the Schiavo case
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 6/16/05 | Katherine Kersten

Posted on 06/16/2005 6:53:51 AM PDT by rhema

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 301 next last
To: BykrBayb
In what way does the autopsy show that Michael never abused Terri?

The exam found no evidence of abuse. Need I add the "duh" to that?

To repeatedly demand - as you are - that someone prove the existence of a negative, in this case, that Mr. Schiavo never abused his wife, is ridiculous, disingenuous and unintelligent.

221 posted on 06/16/2005 3:06:24 PM PDT by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer

I have asked him to back up his claim that the autopsy shows Michael didn't abuse Terri. He made that claim, not me. If you're going to stick your nose into the middle of a conversation, try reading the whole thing first.


222 posted on 06/16/2005 3:09:46 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer

Well DUH---"no evidence of" means just that. NOT that it didn't occur.


223 posted on 06/16/2005 3:14:25 PM PDT by jackv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: jackv
Exactly. But BB is demanding that someone prove that abuse never happened, not asking him to establish that there was no evidence of it having happened. That's already been done.

It there's an allegation of abuse, it's up to those making it to prove it did happen, but of course they can't. They can only spread libel.

224 posted on 06/16/2005 3:21:45 PM PDT by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 223 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer

If someone alleges that the autopsy shows Michael didn't abuse Terri, do you hold them to the same standard of proof? I didn't think so.


225 posted on 06/16/2005 3:25:09 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 224 | View Replies]

To: BykrBayb

It's more accurate to say that you just don't think.


226 posted on 06/16/2005 3:27:45 PM PDT by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer

Cute. Now can you ask your Mommy to help you come up with a more mature response? Try responding directly to your false accusations against me.


227 posted on 06/16/2005 3:29:38 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: BykrBayb

I only accused you of disingenuity. It wasn't a false accusation. No response necessary.


228 posted on 06/16/2005 3:33:33 PM PDT by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: flaglady47

**But then the truth is totally immaterial to you Terri supporters.**

Why the anger? Last night I saw Alan Combs treat a member of Shivio family with the absolute rudeness and a glee in his voice in his questioning. I see the same on this forum from the supporters of Schiavo tube being removed. I can see why the supporters of Terri would still be angry, they feel like someone was murdered in front of their eyes and they couldn't stop it but your side won so why still argue? As the old saying "Me thinks thou is protesting too much" rings true.

"you Terri supporters" Interesting that you say You Terri supporters? I thought that the side that supported the Husband was supporting Terri's wishes and wanted to end her suffering? Don't sound like you cared about Terri one way or another like the other poster who worried about the effect of government involvement in marriage you must have another agenda than Terri's welfare.

My problems with the case is as followed.

1. The Husband and his family is on one side yet her Parents, Siblings, Friends, and many Nurses wanted the tube left in. In other words do we believe that only one loved her (the Husband) while the Family, Friends, Nurses all wanted her to suffer in order to get back at the Husband because of a fight? Or do we believe that Family, Friends, Nurses all loved her more than the Husband did and the Husband motives has to be suspect?

2. If I had a loved one and I didn't want her to suffer then if I made the decision to end her life I wouldn't have her suffer for weeks, I would either move her to an assisted suicide state or simply placed a pillow over her head. To have her suffer for weeks don't vibe with a loving husband.

3. If I was so sure that she has PVS and wouldn't get better then what harm in letting the parents take over or at least prove to them that she couldn't improve. Let them take over the care for six months or a year, let them bring in their own medical experts. The Husband wasted more time than that in legal fights. Rather than invite review and settle questions about Terri the Judge and Husband wanted to kill her as quickly as possible which makes you think they have something to hide.

I wouldn't surprised if all the claims of the Husband and his supporters did turn out to be true but it would make more sense to find all this out before the plug was pulled.


229 posted on 06/16/2005 3:36:42 PM PDT by Swiss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer
They can only spread libel.

Don't you hate it when you specifically ask someone not to respond to your lies, and they just go right ahead and expose you anyway?

230 posted on 06/16/2005 3:37:49 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies]

To: Windsong
Terri was dead.

Then why'd they have to kill her?

231 posted on 06/16/2005 3:38:20 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ('Quality of Life': another name for the slippery slope into barbarism...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: BykrBayb

HELLOOOO

The autopsy DIDN'T show that michael didn't abuse her. It just showed that there was no evidence.

You've probably been hurt a time or two without any proof of actual injuries.

Good grief!!


232 posted on 06/16/2005 3:40:57 PM PDT by jackv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: Windsong
One doctor said that if you turned her head side to side you could hear the fluid sloshing around in her head.

That would be funny if it wasn't so sick.

Was this the euthanasia 'doctor' Michael brought in...the one who is wants to euthanize all the Alzheimers patients, and who at one time diagnosed a man who could fully communicate as 'PVS'?

233 posted on 06/16/2005 3:41:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ('Quality of Life': another name for the slippery slope into barbarism...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: BykrBayb
Don't you hate it when you specifically ask someone not to respond to your lies, and they just go right ahead and expose you anyway?

No, I leave hatefulness to you.

234 posted on 06/16/2005 3:42:05 PM PDT by mountaineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 230 | View Replies]

To: rhema

Great article! Definitely worthy of a bookmark!

Thanks for posting it...


235 posted on 06/16/2005 3:43:29 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ('Quality of Life': another name for the slippery slope into barbarism...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountaineer

Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo?


236 posted on 06/16/2005 3:45:06 PM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: jackv; Jibaholic; mountaineer

LOL - That's not exactly what this is about.

Jibaholic claimed that he has evidence that Michael didn't abuse Terri. I asked him to produce the evidence. Mountaineer jumped in and twisted it around to pretend that I was asking for proof, out of the blue, for something that can't be proven.


237 posted on 06/16/2005 3:46:14 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]

To: flaglady47; MarMema; tutstar; floriduh voter; 8mmMauser
How can you know what he knew would happen and all the other situations on which you expound? Are you a friend/family/colleague/associate of Michael Schiavo, George Felos or George Greer or ANY OTHER PERSON connected to either of them? If you are, say so and how credibly .. I shall believe you. Otherwise, it's so much speculation; however, your confidence may indicate an intimacy with some/all of the principals which you're not honestly revealing.

All I know is this: Terri Schiavo, (whose collapse in 1990 under unusual circumstances and questionable medical assistance; i.e. 70 mins. lying as she fell before 911 was called) .. a living disabled young woman, with no terminal disease -- breathing on her own, heart pumping on its own -- was legally allowed to be starved of nourishment and hydration for 13 days until her horrible death, a fate that isn't legally allowed to done to a dog or a death row inmate.

A PAINLESS DEATH?

Excerpt:

"Yes, it is true that when people are actively dying from terminal disease, they often refuse food and water. The disease makes the food and water repulsive to them. In such circumstances, it is medically inappropriate to force food and water into a person who is actively rejecting it. Indeed, doing so could cause suffering.

But this isn't what is happening to Terri. She isn't dying of cancer. Her body isn't shutting down as part of the natural dying process. Indeed, she is not dying at all--unless her food and water is taken away.

".........A conscious [cognitively disabled] person would feel it just as you or I would.

They will go into seizures.

Their skin cracks, their tongue cracks, their lips crack.

They may have nosebleeds because of the drying of the mucus membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue because of the drying out of the stomach lining.

They feel the pangs of hunger and thirst.

Imagine going one day without a glass of water! Death by dehydration takes ten to fourteen days. It is an extremely agonizing death.

" " ........... After seven to nine days [from commencing dehydration] they begin to lose all fluids in the body, a lot of fluids in the body.

And their blood pressure starts to go down.

When their blood pressure goes down, their heart rate goes up

Their respiration may increase and then . . . the blood is shunted to the central part of the body from the periphery of the body.

So, that usually two to three days prior to death, sometimes four days, the hands and the feet become extremely cold.

They become mottled.

That is you look at the hands and they have a bluish appearance.

And the mouth dries a great deal, and the eyes dry a great deal and other parts of the body become mottled.

And that is because the blood is now so low in the system it's shunted to the heart and other visceral organs and away from the periphery of the body . . ."

"MOST OF THE TIME, we never know for sure what a starved or dehydrated person experiences. But in at least one case--that of a young woman who had her tube feeding stopped for eight days and lived to tell the tale--we have direct evidence of the agony that forced dehydration may cause.

At age 33, Kate Adamson collapsed from a devastating and incapacitating stroke. She was utterly unresponsive and was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state (PVS). Because of a bowel obstruction she developed, her nourishment was stopped so that doctors could perform surgery.

Adamson eventually recovered sufficiently to author "Kate's Journey: Triumph Over Adversity," in which she tells the terrifying tale. Rather than being unconscious with no chance of recovery as her doctors believed, she was actually awake and aware but unable to move any part of her body voluntarily. (This is known as a "locked-in state.") When she appeared recently on "The O'Reilly Factor," host Bill O'Reilly asked Adamson about the dehydration experience:

O'REILLY: When they took the feeding tube out, what went through your mind?

ADAMSON: When the feeding tube was turned off for eight days, I thought I was going insane. I was screaming out in my mind, "Don't you know I need to eat?" And even up until that point, I had been having a bagful of Ensure as my nourishment that was going through the feeding tube. At that point, it sounded pretty good. I just wanted something. The fact that I had nothing, the hunger pains overrode every thought I had.

O'REILLY: So you were feeling pain when they removed your tube?

ADAMSON: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. To say that--especially when Michael [Schiavo] on national TV mentioned last week that it's a pretty painless thing to have the feeding tube removed--it is the exact opposite. It was sheer torture, Bill.

O'REILLY: It's just amazing.

ADAMSON: Sheer torture . . .

In preparation for this article, I contacted Adamson for more details about the torture she experienced while being dehydrated. She told me about having been operated upon (to remove the bowel obstruction) with inadequate anesthesia when doctors believed she was unconscious:

The agony of going without food was a constant pain that lasted not several hours like my operation did, but several days. You have to endure the physical pain and on top of that you have to endure the emotional pain. Your whole body cries out, "Feed me. I am alive and a person, don't let me die, for God's Sake! Somebody feed me."

A Painless Death

THE FACTS --"Terri Schiavo, (whose collapse in 1990 under unusual circumstances and questionable medical assistance; i.e. 70 mins. lying as she fell before 911 was called) .. a living disabled young woman, with no terminal disease -- breathing on her own, heart pumping on its own -- was legally allowed to be starved of nourishment and hydration for 13 days until her horrible death, a fate that isn't legally allowed to done to a dog or a death row inmate"

Excerpt explaining the premise of this site from the owner:

"As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. "

The autopsy photo of Lisa McPherson, if you want to see the result of death by deprivation of nourishment and hydration - CAUTION: GRAPHIC AND NOT ALLOWED TO BE SHOWN HERE!

http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/lisa_mcpherson_dehydrated.jpg

WHEN THERE'S DOUBT, ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF


238 posted on 06/16/2005 3:47:08 PM PDT by STARWISE ( You get the govt. you deserve. CALL YOUR CONGRESS CRITTERS OFTEN -U.S. CONGRESS: 1-877-762-8762)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: STARWISE

The Scientologists call the hotel in Clearwater "Flagland".


239 posted on 06/16/2005 3:53:30 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: floriduh voter

Interesting.


240 posted on 06/16/2005 3:56:10 PM PDT by STARWISE ( You get the govt. you deserve. CALL YOUR CONGRESS CRITTERS OFTEN -U.S. CONGRESS: 1-877-762-8762)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 239 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 301 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson